Bad marriage "not an excuse for sin"!?!?

[Deke in TX]

Normally I am not a proponent of Zero tolerance policies thinking that one ought to look closely at the events before making a judgement. That said, there are certain things that scream, Stop it now!” and domestic violence is right at the top of my list. What do you think?

Bad marriage 'not an excuse for sin,' speaker tells seminary women By Bob Allen
Tuesday, November 03, 2009

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (ABP) -- A Boyce College instructor (Heath Lambert) told women at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary that a bad marriage is "not an excuse for sin," and in a worst-case scenario a submissive wife might be forced to "suffer wrong."

"Sometimes when we are horribly mistreated by a spouse, by your husband, your flesh screams to get mad, get even or just get out -- I just want to get out of this thing. I'm going to leave," he said.

not an excuse for sin

[salsa]

Deke - I'm not sure what you're asking. I think there will be no lack of folks on this board who consider the abuse of a spouse to be a deal-breaker because the abuser, by his/her act/s of abuse, has already broken the sacred covenant of marriage. I don't think there'll be any lack of folks on this board who think that this degree of submissiveness is not what most biblical literalists advocate (though I thought that this Southern Baptist seminary was more main-stream, middle of the road, than this).

That said - what constitutes abuse? I've known women who are perfectly willing to slough off, or put up with, things that I wouldn't. I grew up being the butt of jokes and I would not tolerate it from my spouse for a second - even benign jokes. Then, I've known couples who consider this playful teasing.

.........

But, to put myself in the frame of mind of being a submissive wife, and in the role of that uber-traditional/conservative way of life, I suppose I'd have to depend highly on my dad protecting me from bad seeds courting me. I'd have to run away if some bad seed asked my dad if he could marry me and my dad said yes - seeing as I have no say in the matter 'n all...

............

Something I've gotten onto in the last year is reading some blogs of ultra-conservative, traditional women. These women seem to be happy and fulfilled in their lives and many of them chose the life after being brought up in a secular lifestyle or with feminist ideals. From the way Deke presents it, it's like we're on this slippery slope of giving men free rein to abuse women, by guilt-tripping the women. In most cases, there's equal education for the males on how to treat your wife and family. I wonder if this author has anything directed towards men? It seems you've extracted some soundbytes that may not paint the whole picture.

That said, I've worked with abused women both in social services and in ministry and I can't begin to tell you some of the STUPID advice these women have been given by so-called clergy!!! The most common is, "Try not to upset him." Then there's the dismissal, if not outright denial - "is it so bad that you'd break up your whole family? ...." Of course the ever-famous (but not one I've heard all that often, in real life), "You need to forgive a repentant sinner."

Last, abuse is not limited to biblical literalists. It happens equally among all demographic types.

[salsa]

The power of soundbytes:


This is also in the article -

"The first step is not, 'Well, I'll just take it. I'll just take bad treatment,'" he said. "It's never the step to endure a dangerous situation, to endure a situation where you are being abused and hurt. You need to get help immediately in that situation."

That paints a different picture until he continues:

After engaging and getting help, he said, "Only then are you willing to suffer wrong."

Lambert said relationships can be difficult and marriages can be very painful. In those cases, he said, Christians have a responsibility to "draw near to God" and to "honor Christ and obey his Word."

"In our relationships, God doesn't promise us a pain-free life," Lambert said. "He doesn't promise us pain-free relationships. In fact he promises the opposite. Jesus says this world will give us trouble, but when the worst-case scenario of relationships comes along, it's going to hurt. There's going to be pain, but God wants to use that to make you more like his son."

Earlier Lambert advised women in bad marriages to take responsibility for their own sin before putting the blame solely on their husband.

"Now, we've got to be very careful here," Lambert said. "It's possible that in a relationship crisis -- in fact it's more than possible, it's probable -- that your sin has something to do with the crisis."

[chuck]

It's kind of weird that you would bring this up today DEKE because I'm on my way over to the church right now to bind up 200 copies of my divorce/remarriage treatment... that some of you have read... to hand out tomorrow morning at church! I'm going to be spending the next two Sundays, mornings and evenings, teaching on the subject to our entire congregation.

I've been studying on this since the 60's.... I am prepared in heart.

God... have mercy.

[Deke in TX]

I posted this to see what my sisters and brothers think about this. I did not knee jerk react that he is wrong- first place I don't have the whole speech. I am (slowly) downloading the mp3 file and will listen with interest.

I just wonder who he is advising an abused woman to seek for help. I know of a battered woman who went to her pastor (Catholic) and was told that she need to go home and be a dutiful wife. Now that was 45 years in the past but I am sure there are pastors that are just as ignorant of how to deal with a serious problem.
BTW- I would have no problem with her going to a certain pastor in Little Rock- And can I get the current finished work, Chuck?

[chuck]

Of course DEKE, but you might have it already. I'm of course learning all the time and the thing could be a 1000 page document! Amazing what has been put out there compared to what the scripture teaches... and heart breaking what has been put out there.

pm me with your e-mail... I'm pretty sure I have it but just to make sure. By the way, the current one is still only 25 pages long. In actuality it is more an outline than an actual treatise. Every point could be greatly expanded upon! But, what I have in it is just the bare nuggets of dealing with the issue.

God Bless!

[Deke in TX]

You can download the talk here {url=http://www.boycecollege.com/2009/11/02/heath-lambert-on-worst-case-scenarios-in-relationships/]Worse case scenarios{/url]

It took over an hour to download on dialup. I transferred it to my player and listened as I did my walk. The article seemed to highlight the wrong things that Lambert spoke about. I really don't have much against his teaching. He did make the point that the wife should not be in a position of danger - I don't think that was emphasized enough.

I would like to know what others here at DPS think if they have time to give it a listen- I think it is about 30 minutes.

[revmar7]

I am hoping it's not too late to ask Chuck to email me a copy of his materials on divorce/remarriage. They sound like something I should review before I talk with a friend who recently announced that she and her husband are divorcing. Please, Chuck?