Helping the Poor

[salsa]

A conversation that's bordering on an argument has arisen on the Gospel lectionary page. IMO, it's a side-bar discussion to the Gospel lesson itself, so I chose not to participate there even though it stirred something up in me.

It began with someone advocating work and providing for their families (that is an over-simplification). Then, of course, others objected ... I didn't read all of it, I confess, because it was too much back and forth.

However, as to how to help "the poor," or "the needy," is a conundrum. It raises an ethical debate within myself and challenges me against my judgmentalism.

I KNOW there are poor who are struggling and who are there because they're victims of circumstances. In a Bible study called, "The Jesus Principles," Christopher Maricle comes right out and says, "give money to whoever asks." I've taken that as seriously as I can in my circumstance. I know that giving a dollar to the homeless man on the exit ramp isn't going to cure homelessness, but it gives him a dollar he didn't have before. I don't care how he spends it; if he wants to get some Mad Dog, then all I can say is if I were living on the street, I'd probably get some Mad Dog, too.

I did my CPE in a downtown public hospital that was undergoing major construction. So not only were the homeless guys out just to panhandle, even more would hang out hoping to get hired as day laborers. We'd see the same guys day after day asking for money when they didn't get hired. It was heartbreaking. Soon after, I was the associate director of a senior center in the same city. Homeless people would come by quite often and we heard the "stories" (you'd think they'd change the story a bit because after hearing the same one 3 times, you get a bit skeptical!) and knew some families were barely holding it together and, in their panic, making poor, snap decisions (one man sold his tools to get money) ... OK. I get all that. I understand it. It's an issue bigger than me.

My current church sponsors a family for back to school every year. This year we sponsored 4 children. When they came to pick up the supplies, the mom revealed she was pregnant. Just a couple weeks ago, another family called. We'd sponsored their 5 children for back to school the previous year. I asked if there was anything else they needed, they said, "diapers" and so we even held a diaper drive for them. The newborn baby (#6) had been sick and in the hospital and they were kind of overwhelmed. (as a side-bar, this was the family that never said, "thank you.") They called a couple months later asking for more diapers, but I simply didn't respond. Not because I don't feel for them, but we can't get in the practice of being someone's secondary income source - or diaper supplier. She called not long ago asking for help with electricity because she was out of work - due to just having had baby #7.

OK, so I'm in knots. My understanding of Jesus' words says, "it's their life, we're not called to pass judgment, etc..." and I also want to grab these moms and dads by the shoulders and ask, "If you need help taking care of the 6 children you already have, why did you have a seventh?" I also know we're to give without expecting a reward (not even a "thank you"). I want to get into their reproductive rights and suggest using birth control or sterilization and I want taxpayers to pay for the procedure (I oppose abortion except under extreme circumstances, so let's not get into THAT debate).

There's a man who comes by for help who's worn out his welcome at 2 churches already. I know he's sick, but his story doesn't completely add up. It's just that there are kids involved and no one wants the kids to suffer.

So ... anyone who wants to throw their hat in the ring - knock yourself out. What are we to do when helping isn't always helpful.

[revlurch]

I heard something the other day attributed to a retired fire chief. He said, "It's [the emergency] not our fault, it's just our problem."

Why or how folks get into the situations they find themselves in is not our fault. When they present themselves to us it becomes our problem. You could argue it is a slight distinction but it's helpful for me.

I'm sure we will have a whole wonderful discussion about giving to help alleviate the suffering and sometimes that is exactly what is needed--i.e. temporary unemployment, illness, divorce (not an exhaustive list). However, I think you are talking more about what to do with the chronic need.

A place to start is to quit taking responsibility for other people's situations (it's not our fault). At some point, we (me too) need to take responsibility for what we do and the choices we make. My wife and I were way over our heads in debt and spending more than we made. We made some hard choices to get ourselves out of debt and now find ourselves in a situation where sometimes we have to deny ourselves wants but we can always cover needs with cash rather than credit. We took a hard look at what we were doing and made changes.

It's not always simple or easy. We had a rough couple years and we are still working to continue to improve our situation. We could not have made it without the support of others in the community and our family. But WE had to take the initiative to make changes, no one could make the changes for us. Others could enable us to continue to be destructive (sometimes they did) but no one could force us to change without removing the incentive to remain the same.

It's a long personal way to say sometimes the best help we can give people is to say NO. It may be just what they need to jolt themselves into better behaviors. We always have to recognize that there will be people who will not change and who will always be spiraling downwards. Again, that is not our fault. Their situation may be our problem but not our fault. Do what you can and trust that the rest will be taken care of.

[chuck]

We started a ministry/strategy several years ago where our church actively helps our church families get out of debt. We've also started another ministry where we are actively doing home repairs for our members with those type of needs that are not able to do so themselves... we've replaced three roofs so far... things like that... and the focus here has been on our widows. They have both been rewarding. The goal we have for the first ministry is that when a couple weds in our fellowship they will move into a debt free home... our goal is to have that happening by 2020.

The other benevolent ministries of helping those not a part of our fellowship is always possible, but we have to be of course careful for there are those who would take advantage of churches. They will often prey on a church's caring heart... and abuse it. We have a very active network of sharing information between churches in our area when we suspect a person is just going from church to church getting support. We even have our local law enforcement involved when it becomes apparent that a person or group is actually operating what we might consider a scam operation.

I think that the scripture is pretty clear that our benevolence should begin within our own fellowship and then extend to others as we are able... but with discernment.

It is difficult.

[Susan in Ca.]

Our community has a practice where if people need money for gas, or food, they get a voucher, and can take it to a particular gas station, or grocery store, and the church pays the station/store for the amount of the voucher. Every church in town does the same thing, so those who come for assistance never get actual cash from the church's themselves.

But I have to say that as one who recently needed financial assistance and was approached by the pastor who works with deacons to submit bills, I don't know that I will ever do it again. It was hard enough asking for help. But the church deacons have a policy that the "needy" give the bills and they pay that bill directly to the company. My problem was I had already paid the bills, and had the receipts to show it. What I needed was money to replenish my account for the incoming bills. They made me feel horrible, like I was trying to swindle them. The policy in itself is a policy of suspicion, and is also paternalistic. It assumes that everyone who is in need is irresponisible. I can understand that churches need to be careful and that some do try and pull one over, but I am a pastor of that church, and grew up there. I had receipts to prove what I had paid. After much cajoling from the pastor they finally relented. But I told him I will never go to them again for money. I will work at Jack in the box or something before doing that again.

So, somewhere along the line, I think that churches need to use more discernment and not have one policy that fits all. I think we need to be less judging and more moving out with the compassion of Christ, and not to assume that because someone is need that they need the church to pay their bills for them. Poor doesn't mean dishonest and irresponsible. There are legitimate causes for being in a place of need, that have nothing to do with the individual's integrity or character.

Susan

[chuck]

Susan... that's just one of the saddest things I've ever heard of! For a church to know you like they have... then to question you like that?

OK... I'm going to refrain... but... if you want to give me their phone number...

chuck

[salsa]

ditto what Chuck said. That's simply unconscionable and I can guarantee would not happen at our church. Our policy exists for people we don't really know (and, having managed these kinds of funds before, I know people try to use them as a source of income).

[revlurch]

What I needed was money to replenish my account for the incoming bills. They made me feel horrible, like I was trying to swindle them. The policy in itself is a policy of suspicion, and is also paternalistic. It assumes that everyone who is in need is irresponisible. I can understand that churches need to be careful and that some do try and pull one over, but I am a pastor of that church, and grew up there. I had receipts to prove what I had paid. After much cajoling from the pastor they finally relented. But I told him I will never go to them again for money. I will work at Jack in the box or something before doing that again.

Ready to be labeled an uncaring monster but I have to ask the question: Why did you need to "replenish your account" and not just submit the incoming bills?

[Susan in Ca.]

Lurch,

Because I had paid the bills on my own, trying not to have to ask for help. I had nothing left. My account was empty. I had proof of the amount I had paid, with receipts, and the amount I was asking for was less than I really had paid out.

What bothered me, was the attitude of the Deacon Board, (one of whom I grew up with and whose mom is one of my mom's closest friends.) And the lack of flexibility for who the requester is. I not only have been known by this congregation since I was 5, and I am a lot older than that now. I also serve communion on a monthly basis, assist in worship, lead the Stephen Ministers, all on a volunteer basis. So for them to treat me the same as one of the street people, who I know do have stories that they use, and exchange with each other, was more than a little insulting. I also have quite a few of my bills that are automatically taken from my account, so I don't have a paper bill to hand to them. But again, it was the attitude more than anything that was disturbing.

Susan

[Susan in Ca.]

Thanks, Chuck and Sally.

[RevIan]

Ready to be labeled an uncaring monster but I have to ask the question: Why did you need to "replenish your account" and not just submit the incoming bills?

Ready to be labeled as sarcastic, Lurch, but ... DUH!!!???