Date: 17 Jan 2001
Time: 03:02:46
Football is patient; football is kind; football is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Football never ends.
Not.
With all the hype we will be seeing as we build up to Superbowl Sunday, isn't it helpful to think of something that won't be over after four quarters and several billion dollars? I enjoying watching, even playing football. But isn't it funny to see how hard we have to work to build up something that in it's basic form is the opposite of what Paul is talking about? And then it is over in a matter of hours. Love never ends.
Mark from Ark
Date: 17 Jan 2001
Time: 03:25:14
Sorry about that double post. I hit the refresh button on the wrong page. Guess that will live on for a while...
An old issue of Homiletics (2/92) refers to a Life magazine article and subsequent book in which they asked 173 people what they thought the meaning of life was. They asked everyone "from the Dalai Lama to Rosa Parks, from Richard Nixon to George Lucas, from John Updike to Desmond Tutu, from Timothy Leary to Maya Angelou, from poets to scientists to religious leaders to everyday sages on the street." (I assume that is a quote from Life.) The book is entitled *The Meaning of Life* (New York: Little, Brown, 1991). The article cites that many of the people use love as the foundation of their response, and claim the book gives some wonderful quotes.
Mark in Ark
Date: 17 Jan 2001
Time: 22:18:00
Mark from Ark... any relation to Mork from Ork?
glad you're human...
and OUCH! That hurts... we Viking fans have it tough enough without the guilt of another preacher...
Date: 18 Jan 2001
Time: 21:00:45
Since our TN TITANS lost out in the playoffs, Super Sunday will be quieter in Mid-TN. Maybe we will have a prayer vigil for all the mourners. Amazing how long folks dawdled, chatting, in no hurry to go home last week. "As for Field goals, they will pass outside, as for point spreads, they shall cease, as for cheering thongs, they will be silenced, as for a football championship, it may come to a crashing halt, but LOVE never fails". Thanx, Mark, that just may preach. tom in TN(USA)
Date: 18 Jan 2001
Time: 21:02:23
Cheering throngs, I meant!
Date: 21 Jan 2001
Time: 20:22:18
I'm doing a serious on I Corinthians and their problems and Paul's solutions. His solution was to bring people together even in their great differences(as they argue over whose gift is better) Here Paul tells them the greatest gift is love. But what kind of love is it? These verses we say at weddings and put on greeting cards make us think of a love that involves feeling good and affectionate. I do not think this is the kind of love Paul is talking about. This love (agape) is more about a way of life then a way of feeling. Love is an attitude. It is not boastful, resentful, or revengeful. This way of love never ends. This love draws people together even in differences. This love keeps people on the right path even when we feel like being rude and arrogant. This way of love leads us through what we can only see dimly into a light where we may see clearly. This love leads us to where God wants us to be. For God is this love.
What do you think?
RB in NC
Date: 21 Jan 2001
Time: 22:50:16
Why couldn't the Browns have won before they were the Ravens? Here in Ohio we will be cheering for the Giants!
Date: 22 Jan 2001
Time: 11:27:30
The last time I preached this text, I borrowed a pair of cymbals to crash a few times throughout the sermon, when talking about what ministries of the church would be like if done without love. It kept people awake, to be sure!
John in VA
Date: 23 Jan 2001
Time: 10:36:46
This 'Love Chapter' has too often been wrenched from the context of Paul's letter. As we expound this passage to our congregations it is imperative that we make it clear that Paul's discussion of love is the bedrock upon which the gifts of the Spirit are to be exercised. That is not to say that this 'love' chapter does not have application to marriage and other relationships etc. . . But in the words of the 'Sound of Music', we must 'start from the very beginning.'
The concept of love that is beautifully expounded here is rooted in the very nature of God and is the defining characteristic of the Spirit-filled people of God. This love is the more excellent way - it is a love beyond compare. In Gordon Fee's definitive commentary (NICNT) on 1 Corinthians, he says, "To 'have love,' therefore, means to be toward others the way God in Christ has been toward us." The Corinthians believed spirituality was centred in the possession of the gifts (especially tongues, prophecy and knowledge) and did not have much concern at all for the Christian lifestyle of holiness. Paul does not decry the gifts. Rather, he reorientates the priorities. To be spiritual is to be filled with the Holy Spirit and live as Spirit-filled people. Love is the fountain from which life in the Spirit springs. Any spirituality that is does not flow from love is empty and vain. Why? Because God is love.
The theme of the passage is this: The more excellent way is discovered in the pursuit of love. 1. The necessity of love (vs.1-3). 2. The qualities of love (vs. 4-7). 3. The endurance of love (vs. 8-13).
Date: 23 Jan 2001
Time: 10:39:02
Oops. . .the last contribution was from a Canadian in Scotland.
Date: 23 Jan 2001
Time: 15:58:05
"A Canadian in Scotland" makes a very good point. I've learned a lot by reading Richard A. Horsley's comments, in the Abingdon New Testament Commentary. He points out that 1 Cor. 13 is part of Paul's argument in writing to the church of Corinth about their internal struggle. For example, in vv. 1-3 Paul exaggerates the characteristics that the Corinthians value highly, to the point of mocking them, according to Horsley. Then he deflates the characteristics each time he says "but do not have love . . ." Verse 11, which always struck me as disconnected from the context, fits in when viewed in this way: Paul is insinuating something about the maturity of the Corinthians' approach. He ends the pericope by stressing how lasting love is, as opposed to the spiritual experiences that the Corinthians have elevated. I'm not sure how my sermon will formulate this week, but I'm thinking of doing something to bring this beloved passage down to earth so its beauty is still appreciated, but it's not viewed as a sentimental Hallmark card. MTSOfan
Date: 23 Jan 2001
Time: 19:34:05
With the Corinthians Paul is having to deal with divisions resulting from people’s inflated perception of the importance of their spiritual gifts. If he were writing to my church he probably wouldn’t need to worry much about spiritual gifts being used, much less an over inflated importance concerning the gifts – how about your congregation?
It seems more likely that the issue today might center around our views of the style of worship service we should participate in, or maybe the organ (or synthesizer) we have, the worship team (or choir) we have, the Sunday school or (Home small group studies) we have, or our liberal (or conservative) interpretation of scripture...? Of course, we have a genuine right to feel self-importance about such issues. These are the things that allow us to stand a cut above the other, “less correct, less blessed ” Christians – whether they be in our own church body, or that one down the road a way – and besides, these issues, these essentials of our faith surely won’t “pass away” like those spiritual gifts, right?
Or maybe they will. And maybe we ought to focus upon love – instead of our own self importance – just like the Corinthians… who can say?
Feeling a little sarcastic today, OCinCA
Date: 23 Jan 2001
Time: 21:39:30
It seems to me that this week's lections are about getting outside our comfort zone. Jeremiah, as a youth, is called to be outside of his comfort zone. Jesus takes the congregation of Nazareth outside of their comfort zone - to the point of wanting to throw Jesus over a cliff. The congregation at Corinth seemed to be at home in their strife and self-righteousness. Can you imagine what this passage in Corinthians would do to their comfort zone - especially verses 4-6? How does Jesus call us to live outside our comfort zone?
PK in OH
Date: 24 Jan 2001
Time: 05:12:50
The Canadian in Scotland is correct in the need to see chapter 13 in context. with the parts of the body as one in love and the gifts are useless without love as the aim (or the gifts will seem as self-love or self-selling. So chap 13 is the bridge between the two.
Don't sell others short, they too are a part. Don't sell yourself too much, or you will take yourself out of the body. Love must be the aim, to include, to see, to be mature in faith, hope...
an american in a Church of Scotland church in the Bahamas
Date: 24 Jan 2001
Time: 13:51:01
MTSOfan from a Canadian in Scotland: You spoke of the Corinthian lack of maturity in verse 11. I thought I might another angle with you. I owe my view point both to C. K. Barrett and Gordon Fee.
It seems to me that the child/adult as well as the 'mirror dimly' metaphor is Paul's attempt to contrast between the 'now' and the 'not yet'. As I understand it, Paul is making an eschatological statement. His main thrust is to show that though the gifts of the Spirit have a 'sell-by' or expiry date, while love is enduring both in the present and for all eternity.
The gifts of the Spirit grounded in love are for the present moment in the life of the church. The present moment is our childhood - we have a taste of what is to come through the gifts of the Spirit - yet it is imperfect. We have received a revelation of who God is, yet it is an indirect revelation just as a reflection in the mirror is an indirect encounter with the objects reflected.
The future time of maturity/completeness will be our adulthood - when all will be revealed as we have a face to face encounter with God (not a 'mirror' encounter).
I hope this is somewhat helpful. I would be grateful to get feedback from you. Thanks.
Date: 24 Jan 2001
Time: 20:52:53
I think the kind of love Paul calls us to here is the same kind of love my second teacher taught us on Valentine's Day. You brought valentines to school, and you brought them for everyone - not just your friends, not just for the popular kids. It didn't matter if that person had hit you last week, or said crummy things about you at recess. You brought every member of the class a valentine. Love isn't about preference, or about who is your friend. Love is the glue that keeps us in community even when so many things out there want to blow community apart.That's a hard love for so many to practice these days in the church. If someone does something I don't like here, I'll leave.Its much harder to stay and struggle to keep loving. Just some early thoughts. Lisa in So IL
Date: 24 Jan 2001
Time: 21:10:35
No previous posts 1998, etc.) on I Corinthians?
kbc in sc
Date: 25 Jan 2001
Time: 04:39:53
To: kbc in sc, regarding your above question.
Apparently, there aren't any previous posts on this. Sorry. Thanks for asking. Glad to check for you. Tom, DPS Tech Staff
Date: 25 Jan 2001
Time: 16:56:56
Lisa in SO IL,
I appreciated your reminding me of what my Grade School teachers were teaching me with those Valentines. I started thinking about those days and remembered all the preparation that went into giving those little expressions of love. It was a very deliberate thoughtful act, as was the preparation that was made to receive the gift -- We would beautifully decorate a paper bag, or create a large heart covered envelope, to hang along the wall for others to drop their gifts into.
I wonder if as pastors we might also try to encourage people not only to extend love to everyone - not just your friends, not just for the popular etc.- but then to be prepared and open to receive love from those people as well.
OCCinCA
Date: 25 Jan 2001
Time: 21:45:15
A Canadian in Scotland: You make a very good point in pointing out the eschatological significance of verse 11. I wonder if Paul's point is both the enduring quality of love and the immaturity shown by the Corinthians.
In vv. 4-7, Paul uses words that are the opposite of love -- words he's used in the text previously. For example, the word "envious" is used in chapters 1-4, especially in Chapter 3, where he refers to "jealousy" and "rivalry". Now, he comes up with a list of words: envious, boastful, arrogant, rude . . .which describe the attitudes he finds in his audience.
Then there's "Love never ends" and the paragraph that follows. Do you think he may be pointing out that agape will be there long after those gifts you're being so arrogant about have expired, and implying that the Corinthians are still speaking, thinking, reasoning like children?
Pretty cool stuff, isn't it? MTSOfan
Date: 25 Jan 2001
Time: 21:48:58
Oops! I just read what I wrote. Sorry about the repetition of the word "point". Not enough neurons functioning, I guess! LOL --MTSOfan
Date: 26 Jan 2001
Time: 09:41:55
MTSOfan from a Canadian in Scotland: Yes, I think you're absolutely correct in your contrast between the finite nature of the gifts as opposed to the enduring essence of love. The only thing that I need to be careful about in my own preaching is that I do not denigrate the gifts of the Spirit. The Corinthians were misusing them - but Paul nowhere indicates that the gifts are not valid in the 'here and now' even though they will pass away. The important point is that the love that endures for eternity is at the heart of the exercise of the gifts. In my congregation, where there is a tendancy to be 'anti-charismatic' I need to be very clear about this point. It is exciting stuff! BY THE WAY, THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR STIMULATING COMMENTS - ESPECIALLY THE VALENTINES STUFF - THAT BROUGHT BACK MEMORIES. . .TROUBLE IS. . .THEY DON'T SEEM TO HAVE THAT TRADITION HERE IN SCOTTISH SCHOOLS. ALAS. . .
Date: 26 Jan 2001
Time: 15:04:02
Thanks to all for the good grist!
I have the idea that while we understand love as a feeling, the bible as a whole and Paul in particular understands it as an action. This is not a passive thing as we understand it. Not something you fall into or out of, but something that one chooses and chooses again!
a humble parish pastor
Date: 27 Jan 2001
Time: 21:32:14
Seems to me the old idea of a word study helps; as I have used this text in about 300 weddings over my 14 years|:
Love here is charis, not agape. This reveals a meaning of "grace - gift", something undeserved, unexpected, coming down from a benevolent God to us here on earth.
When we think we have this love thing conquered and can do it perfectly we need to think again. |Only by tapping into the perfect love of God can we ever hope to have and give |I Corinthians Love.
-Love (and I mean that sincerely), Jeff In NY
Date: 27 Jan 2001
Time: 21:53:10
Jeff in NY:
Perhaps I misunderstood your last post, but the Greek Word for love in 1 Corinthians 13 is not charis as you stated, but is agape. I just scanned through the passage in my Greek New Testament to double check, and I see agape over and over again, but not a single use of charis.
Perhaps the confusion comes from the KJV's use of the word charity?
There is, however a connection with the concept of charis. Paul is trying to address the whole question of which spiritual gifts are best (a conflict apparently raging in Corinth. In 12:31 Paul tells his listeners to strive for the best gifts (charismata), and then launches into chapter 13. i.e. Love is more important that any of the spiritual gifts being touted and argued over in Corinth. (Please forgive me if I'm repeating earlier posts. I scrolled down to the bottom and noticed Jeff's: I haven't read any of the earlier discussion.)
It is also interesting to note that agape is extremely rare in pre-Biblical Greek. The Septuagint picks it up to translate ahav (as well as some other words occasionally), preferring it to the more prevalent (in pre-Biblical Greek) eros and philia. Agape is also preferred in the New Testament.
Hope this helps a bit.
Lorinda in IA
Date: 28 Jan 2001
Time: 01:16:52
Love is being patient. Love is being kind, love is not being envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. Love is not insisting on one’s own way. Love is refraining from being irritable or resentful. Love is not rejoicing in wrongdoing, but rejoices in being able to tell the truth about your actions without hurting someone else’s feelings.
Love is being willing to help shoulder another’s burden, love is trying to be confident enough in relations to know that the loved one can be believed, love is never giving up hope for another, being unselfish in enduring adversity.
Love is never stopping doing those things.
Layperson from Atlanta
Date: 28 Jan 2001
Time: 03:26:55
Just an observation... I haven't read all of todays lesson yet, but I notice people apologize again and again for double "messages" on this and other "like" websites. Curious really, especially as we talk about Paul and his discription of love... for the "double messages" are what Paul seems to be telling us... that God's love, Christ's love, and the love of the Holy Spirit NEVER ends, even after the Super Bowl, even after our message in written word on this site. Indeed, LOVE NEVER ENDS... From the Pulpitt in North Dakota :?)
Date: 28 Jan 2001
Time: 03:41:44
Yes indeed, I remember those Valentine's Day bags and even shoe boxes, with the stick of juicy fruit or the heartshaped sucker in side those cards, and the glue, and the paper and all those memories... THANK YOU... I even got "teary" eyed... if you can believe it... that's how God's love should be for everyone... endless, timeless, ageless, and ABUNDANT... Thanks again! From the Pulpitt in ND :?)