Date: 14 Aug 2000
Time: 17:05:37
"Ask what I should give you."
That's a dangerous offer. God should know! What if Solomon, like Herod's step-daughter, asked for a head on a platter?
And how about Jesus telling us, "Whatever you ask the Father in my name, I will surely do it for you."
What should we ask God for.....?
Have you seen the joke floating around the internet about the man who asks God for a highway to Hawaii? Absurdity abounds in human nature. God, beware!
Yell"Arose!"in TX
Date: 14 Aug 2000
Time: 20:01:26
This text creates a problem for me. God asked what Solomon wanted. Solomon asked for wiseom. God granted him wisdom and a whole bunch of other goodies, unconditionally. Yet, Solomon did not seem to use the wisdom that God gave him for the best purposes. He seemed to misuse God's gifts, yet God honored the promises made to Solomon. Unconditional promises? Doesn't that open the door for abuse of the gifts? Hmmmm..... Just rambling as I try to get started. revd
Date: 14 Aug 2000
Time: 20:54:28
I, too, am just getting started this week! This Sunday we will have our confirmation class join the church. I would appreciate any insight as to how I may tie this "wisdom" passage into this commitment that these young people are making.
Thanks! Southern Belle
Date: 14 Aug 2000
Time: 23:09:01
Belle, The Eph. text has some "how-to's" re wisdom. But kids, like most folks, are drawn to stories. Can you give them some home-spun (i.e., experienced) wisdom? Or tell them a story of Solomon, wise-and-foolish. Or speak of the wisdom of Proverbs (aka Sophia). Just some ideas. Best wishes. Belle's Dtr.
Date: 15 Aug 2000
Time: 13:29:24
I was thinking of examining our prayer life. What is it we ask for - selfish desires or God's guidence? Christians need to seek and work towards God's kingdom. Wisdom to face the challenges of everyday life. We should not treat God as a cosmic Santa Claus. But how is it that we as GOd's people can live for God in the world and lead others to do the same. Wisdom and discernment is needed. However, we should not do ask for wisdom just to get Solomon's reward! God will bless our lives (and not just with material goods), but our motives must be pure. It think this is good counsel to new Christians (confirmands) and those already on the faith journey.
<>< Kingdom DJ
Date: 15 Aug 2000
Time: 15:22:40
I don't know if this will be helpful, but I notice that God comes to Solomon while he is worshipping and sacrificing at the altar of an idol, at the high places. Talk about God pursuing us wherever we go!
Also, I see a condition at the end of the reading in vs. 14.
As for the confirmation class - perhaps a call for the to seek wisdom. In the Epistle postings someone left a quote to this effect, "Too much Word and we dry up, too much Spirit and we blow up, enough of each and we grow up".
I hope some of this is helpful to someone.
Date: 15 Aug 2000
Time: 21:06:22
I find it interesting that, according to Genesis, humanity's first great sin was to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Here, Solomon asks for the ability to discern what it good and what is evil. Taken together, these two passages point to our human dilemma: our knowledge exceeds our wisdom. It isn't enough for us to know(experience) good and evil, we need the wisdom to discern the difference between the two. In a time of unprecedented scientific and technnological advances, Solomon's request has new relevance. It is also worth noting that Solomon's prayer is for something that will help him as he seeks to serve others. CSS
Date: 16 Aug 2000
Time: 04:29:02
This will sound like a very strange question, but does anyone remember the gifts the fairies gave to the infant princess in Disney's "Sleeping Beauty"? For some reason the first thing I thought of when I read this text from I Kings was that scene at the beginning of Sleeping Beauty where she is offered gifts by the good fairies. I am trying to remember if one of these gifts was wisdom.
Desiree in ND
Date: 16 Aug 2000
Time: 15:35:32
Wow, CSS, I like it! The way you have connected the tree of knowledge in Genesis and Solomon's gift request in I Kings is fascinating. I am going to have to give that more thought and include it in my sermon. Thanks for the insight!
I am planning to use the I Kings text in conjunction with the text from Proverbs. I know Proverbs is the "alternative" text for this week, but it fits so well with the I Kings text that I have decided to use it.
Desiree in ND
Date: 16 Aug 2000
Time: 16:15:36
My understanding is that Solomon is at a high place where the Tabernacle from the wilderness rested before the Temple was built, that is what makes it the "most important" or "principle" place. The sleeping there was a ritual call "incubation" so of like an intense spiritual retreat of solitude, but done at a holy place.
<>< Kingdom DJ
Date: 16 Aug 2000
Time: 16:51:36
It seems to me that Solomon already had the gift of wisdom before he asked for it. He had the wisdom to ask for wisdom and not riches ect.. and the wisdom to recognize how insignificant his own wisdom was when met with the daunting task of ruling a kingdom and when compared to God's infinite wisdom.
with all the major medical/ethical dilemas at our doorstep (breeders can chose the sex of their cattle and the technology for parents to chose the sex of their children is imminent)wisdom is something we greatly need.
it seems to me that wisdom begins when we recognize our own limitations and turn to God for help. I think that's part of what "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" means -- we are weak but he is strong.
kb in ab
Date: 16 Aug 2000
Time: 21:15:34
I'm known as the "wild child of the cloth" by my peers so...with that in mind, I plan to use a children's toy to introduce this scripture/meditation entitled "Simon Says." Remember the kid's game? This toy is a stuffed pig whch gives verbal prompts when touched to play "Piggy Says" ...and between games announces..."that was fun! Let's play again and this time you get to be the...noooo! I STILL get to be the piggy!" Sometimes in our quest for what we want in life, we think we need only to play the game. God says do this or that and if you do, then...! And at times we think we should get to call the shots and make the rules. Sometimes life has no rules, only faith in the one who "says"! just thinking along other lines... Sue-eee from PA
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 00:45:49
I see this text not so much as what God gives Solomon but rather what pleases God. Wisdom pleases God.
I have a hard time saying with this text, "As it was with Solomon, so it can be with you." I don't think there are any "Scriptural Principles" here to follow except to simply to note that wisdom is very much a part of God's desire for humanity, (well at least for Solomon anyhow.)
Why is wisdom so crucial? Probably because true wisdom is pretty much walking with God.
John near Pitts.
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 13:07:45
Yell"Arose", no I haven't seen the joke. Can you tell it here, or tell me where to find it? I hate hearing part of a joke. It nags me 'til I get the whole. Ahh, if only I sought wisdom so diligently. Love your "handle"! tom in TN(USA)
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 16:42:22
The high place Solomon goes to in Gibeon was the site of the ancient tabernacle of the Lord and of the altar, both built by Moses (see I Chron. 21:29). God does pursue us into unlikely places, though!
I have been asked to preach at a Korean congregation this Sunday. The expectation is a 30 minute sermon; the manuscript finished, translated and distributed to the congregation before I preach. I am focusing on wisdom as essential for our walk with God; the texts from I Kings, Proverbs, and Ephesians will be read. This is a special Sunday - the Korean church has an annual picnic for all the area families who have adopted Korean children. So I hope to tie in the celebration of "being family" with the wisdom we receive from God.
Any thought? Anyone with experience with Korean congregations?!
Peace, Nancy in MI
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 18:13:38
Nany in MI: Glad to see that someone else is using the Proverbs text with the I Kings and Ephesians.
In answer to my own question the other day, the first two good fairies gave Sleeping Beauty (Princess Aurora) the gifts of beauty and song. After the evil fairy gave the princess the "gift" of pricking her finger on a spindle and dying on her sixteenth birthday, the third good fairy partially undid the evil witch's gift by making it so that Princess Aurora would fall asleep instead of dying when she pricked her finger.
Although wisdom was not one of the gifts, I think the story still works with this week's scripture. It proves that even royalty do not have everything, that material goods alone do not bring happiness.
Desiree in ND
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 18:14:26
I must say, it was fun to watch "Sleeping Beauty" as sermon study! =)
Desiree in ND
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 19:46:25
What is wisdom all about? It is not having the knowledge of scholars. Wisdom is having a "discerning heart." That means listening with ears that hear. Discerning between right and wrong in a world that is no longer black or white but filled with all shades of grey, is truly a gift from God. With such wisdom we see the work of God's Holy Spirit
Solomon was not perfect - he made some whooper of mistakes (as did his father) but having a discerning heart leads one back onto the road of faithfulness. If we look at wisdom as a "discerning heart" it can take us into a different place. If we have a discerning heart, we more readily forgive & reach out. With such insight comes Wisdom.
Now, if only I can length this into a sermon (smile) Any ideas?? Rev.WWM (QC)
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 20:05:33
Another thought... What is the difference between God and a genie? A genie asks, "Whatever you want - I will give it to you" God is asking, "What SHOULD I give you?" Big difference!
Rev.WW (QC)
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 22:19:08
Rev WW is right on target. It's unfortunate that there are a few "translations" that suggest God is saying "Ask for anything and I will give it to you." The literal meaning of the text is "Ask what I should give you." Isn't real prayer a matter of discerning God's will? CSS
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 23:37:35
Wisdom is knowing the will of God. The problem we have is knowing what the will of God really is. Different people and different denominations have different views. -Philip in Ohio
Date: 17 Aug 2000
Time: 23:55:53
I understand that the notion of a discerning heart is literally a "hearing heart". Consider the image of a hearing heart … a heart with ears, a heart that not only listens but hears what is being said.
Certainly, a hearing heart is something that each child of God desires and our Heavely Father delights to give it to his children.
A father/mother needs a hearing heart for their children, a grandparent desires a hearing heart for their children and grandchildren. The idea of a hearing heart must have this horizontal dimension directed toward family and neighbors. But, there is also a certain vertical dimension to this idea of a hearing heart, one that is directed toward God. Both these elements are critical in our walk with the Lord. And best yet, the Lord is pleased when we ask for a hearing heart! Parson
Date: 18 Aug 2000
Time: 02:45:58
One lectionary commentary ("Texts for Preaching," edited by Walter Brueggemann, et al) seems to take a somewhat dismal view of this story of the beginning of Solomon's reign. What the writers are hoping, however, is that we will give this story an honest look, not gloss it over. After the encounter with God and God's promise of gracious provision, it seems that Solomon spends a good deal of time and effort (most?) being anything but "wise." He has just made one political alliance through marriage, and before he is done he will make many more (practical decisions, but not necessarily "wise" ones); his system of taxation becomes a burden for the people on whose behalf he asks for wisdom in the first place; and, finally, when Solomon's reign is ended, the first significant political happening after his death is that the kingdom of Israel splits north and south! YET . . . What is Solomon remembered for? What trait has become synonymous with his name? "Wisdom"--a tribute to the faithfulness of God. So we may sing this Sunday, "Great is THY faithfulness" (even though God's people often exhibit anything but).
"John near Pitts.," I do believe there are "scriptural principles" we can draw from this story--and here I hope to offer something helpful for you, "Southern Belle." I will focus this Sunday on "beginnings"--and this OT scripture is about beginnings: Solomon DOES begin well. My mom used to say, "Well-begun is half-done"--a cliche I am not sure I fully agree with, and Solomon would find out that there was much still to be done as he lived out his reign. But "well-begun" IS JUST THAT; and good beginnings are important for leaving lasting legacies. I think we can highlight three things about Solomon's "good beginning." First, he starts out ON HIS KNEES--not a bad place to begin anything (and though his place of prayer is not "ideal," God does meet Solomon there). Second, Solomon puts himself AT THE BACK OF THE LINE--he places the needs of God's people ahead of his own desires (a move which pleases God). Third, Solomon is in position TO SEE THE "BIG PICTURE"--he acknowledges that God's faithfulness has been a decisive factor in Israel's history (the past in perspective), he admits that without God's help he is helpless (the present in perspective), and he requests the resource that will help in the decisions he will be called upon to make (the future in perspective).
One othe interesting feature here is that Solomon is an "in-between" king. (I am reminded of the line in a song by Semisonic--"every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end"--it is so true when you think about it, especially in the life of faith). Solomon is in-between the Great King David (THE standard for Israel's rulers) and all the rest who come later. Solomon is in-between the time of tribal worship centers (like Gibeon) and the centralization of worship (and rule) in Jerusalem. Solomon is in-between the "golden age" of Israel's monarchy and the age of the "divided kingdom." Solomon is in-between the fruit of his father's sin (remember, though he is not the "son of sin," Solomon's mother is Bathsheba) and the flower of his father's dream (namely, to build God a temple in Jerusalem).
I hope these (lengthy) thoughts help someone along the way . . .
TK in OK
Date: 18 Aug 2000
Time: 18:58:12
My congregation (full of lobster fisher(men and women)) is nearby the current standoff between native fishers and the federal government over treaty rights and offseason fishing. I do not sense anything but hostility and anger from my own people regarding this impossible situation. I would like to be brave enough to address the issue on Sunday without alienating my own flock but fear I will need the 'wisdom of Solomon' in order to do so! My thanks to RevWWM(QC) for speaking about the wisdom of listening before leaping to conclusions (or at least that's how I read it). The official stance of my church on this issue is radically different from how 'the people in the pews' view things. I am reminded of the story of the student who approaches the Master seeking enlightenment and is told that h/she must first empty the cup they are already holding (i.e. the preconceptions, biases, baggage, etc.) in order to fill it anew with wisdom. Thanks to you all for broadening my views and stretching my imagination each week.
Mere in NB
Date: 19 Aug 2000
Time: 02:43:20
I appreciate the comment that Solomon had enough wisdom to recognize that he needed wisdom, and a discerning heart to govern the people. It makes me think of that old movie, "The Wizard of Oz". The scarecrow wanted wisdom, the Tin Man wanted a heart, the Lion wanted courage, and poor Dorothy wanted home. Throughout their journey toward the great OZ, they use wisdom, heart, and courage which they don't even realize they had. And, then, in the final scene, Glenda, the Good Witch, tells Dorothy she has the ability to go home, and it's been with her all the while. Solomon has wisdom, and asks for the ability to use his wisdom for good purpose. And, I think that's what God is rewarding - that Solomon sees his gift and desires to use it. How about the rest of us? Some of us may not be wise, but maybe you have a heart, or courage, or the ability to create a safe and fullfilling home life. Are we willing to use all that God gives us. And, do we believe we will know God's favor if we do?
Just a Thought--- The Iowa Starr
Date: 19 Aug 2000
Time: 10:41:01
Tom in TN -- This one's for you! Yell"Arose"inTX
The Bridge
A man was walking along a California beach and was in deep prayer to the Lord.
He said, "Lord, you have promised to give me the desires of my heart. That's what I am asking you for right now. Please give me a confirmation that you will grant my wish."
Suddenly the sky clouded up over his head and the Lord in a booming voice spoke to him. "I have searched your heart and determined it to be pure. The last time I issued a blank wish request it was to Solomon. He didn't disappoint me with his request for wisdom. I think I can trust that you won't disappoint me either. Because you have been faithful to me in all ways, I will grant you one wish you ask for."
The man sat and thought about it for a while and said, "I've always wanted to go to Hawaii, but I'm deadly afraid of flying and I get very seasick on boats. Could you build a bridge to Hawaii, so I can drive over there to visit whenever I want?"
The Lord laughed and said, "That's impossible! Think of the logistics of that! How would the supports ever reach the bottom of the Pacific? Think of how much concrete ... how much steel!!! Your request is very materialistic; a little disappointing. I could do it, but it's hard for me to justify your craving for worldly things. Take a little more time and think of another wish, a wish you think would honor and glorify Me, as well."
The man thought about it for a long while and tried to think of a really good wish. Finally, he said, "Here's the deal, Lord. I've been married for many years. My wife always said that I don't care and that I'm insensitive. So I wish that I could understand women ... I want to know how they feel inside and what they're thinking when they give me the silent treatment ... I want to know why they're crying ... I want to know what they really mean when they say 'nothing's wrong' ... I want to know how to make them truly happy ... That's the wish that I want, Lord."
Then after a few minutes, God said, "You want two lanes or four on that bridge?"
Date: 19 Aug 2000
Time: 12:26:29
Dear Iowa Starr,
Actually what the Scarecrow wanted was a brain. The Wizard gave him a diploma. He said he knew lots of people who have diplomas, but no brains.
This text seems a great opportunity to talk about Spritual Discernment. Discipleship Resources (United Methodist) has produced some excellent resources for moving our business meetings to a more consensus-based, Spirit-led process. All of the comments this week have given me great reasons for speaking of this approach in the sermon. I especially liked the comment that we need a heart with ears. Would it be possible to use a Mr. Potato Head...no, probably not.
Shalom Boyd in NC
Date: 20 Aug 2000
Time: 00:38:14
I know it is Sat. night, but I am still looking for a humorous story about a genie who grants a wish. One that I can use in the pulpit. I have heard many, but can't think of one right now. The bridge story is good, but I am looking for the one where the person asks for something that is bad for him. thanks rbNnc
Date: 20 Aug 2000
Time: 01:03:21
To the rev looking for a genie joke. This is an oldie: Three people were stranded on an island for a very longtime. One of them found a lamp, and remembering stories of Alladin, the three decided to rub this lamp. And out came a Genie.
“I will grant a wish for each of you.”
The first one wished to be back at home with his family. Poof. He was gone.
The second one wished to be back at work making millions of dollars. Poof. She was gone.
The third thought for awhile, looked around at how empty the island was, and said, “I wish for my two friends to be back here with me.”
Poof. They appeared. “Nice Going, Wise Guy,” they said.
But maybe it might help...it's in my sermon for tomorrow.
Date: 20 Aug 2000
Time: 01:05:57
I hope this comes in time to help the one looking for a "genie" joke:
Three people were stranded on an island for a very longtime. One of them found a lamp, and remembering stories of Alladin, the three decided to rub this lamp. And out came a Genie.
“I will grant a wish for each of you.”
The first one wished to be back at home with his family. Poof. He was gone.
The second one wished to be back at work making millions of dollars. Poof. She was gone.
The third thought for awhile, looked around at how empty the island was, and said, “I wish for my two friends to be back here with me.”
Poof. They appeared. “Nice Going, Wise Guy,” they said.
--Still working on my sermon too!
Date: 20 Aug 2000
Time: 03:21:06
I know many folks won’t see or comment on this, but as I thought about the story, as it unfolds to this point in scripture, I do find it interesting that the first things that Solomon does seemingly have little to do with seeking an understanding heart. As his father lies dying, they contemplate and plan the execution of those who would challenge him. Solomon then carries it out, and like most wielders of power, has another do the actual killing. And, oh by the way, one whom he kills is … his brother. And then, in order to better consolidate his regional power, he marries the daughter of the ruler of Egypt, then follows up with a bit of time up at what was probably a pagan temple—another very good political move if one wants to seem open to those beyond the singularity of Jewish rule, expediant actions when one has powerful neighbors. Not bad consolidation for one who is so young. Solomon clearly shows himself capable and willing to engage in some pretty brutal action if he believes it to be in his interest to do so.
And yet, one is left with the feeling that as he stands before God, he truly does believe he is yet a child, particularly as he views his father’s legacy from the point of new rule. Perhaps he truly does want an understanding heart. Perhaps, just perhaps, as there is hope for Solomon, there is hope for us all.
Shalom my friends, Nail-Bender in NC