Date: 10 Jul 2000
Time: 13:00:42
I have been doing a preaching series on the David Story and will continue throughout the summer. I have found Robert Alter's new translation of 1 & 2 Samuel helpful and Stephen MacKenzie's "King David." I have been disappointed with the lectionarnies leaving out of key passages in the text. For instance, this week the story of Uzzah's death because of the rattling of the Ark by the ox is not there. Leaving it out of the reading for worship takes away David's struggle with God, and leaves only the celebration component of the story. Jeff WNY
Date: 10 Jul 2000
Time: 15:53:43
Thought I might spend some time loking at shame this week. After all, Michal's reaction to David's celebratory dancing must have made him blush a little, of course, shame is deeper than a mere blush, but then, "Micahl bore no children" seems to indicate a bit more than a tsk, tsk, on her part. What do you think? MMS in KS
Date: 10 Jul 2000
Time: 22:51:54
I will be looking at the "awesomeness" of the God before which David danced, represented in the Ark. The incident of Uzzah does not have to be interpreted as dramatically as the "Deuteronomists" historian suggest. But the act of bringing the "Presence" to where we "Live, and move, and have our being" How do we actively demonstrate our desire to experience the presence of God whereever we are?
Shalom
Pasthersyl
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 00:36:34
In a shame and honor based society, I think Michal is the one with shame. She sees David's actions as bringing shame to the royal house. Personally I think there is an interesting comparison to be made between David's dance of joy and the gospel dance of Salome that leads to John's beheading. Why is either performed? What is the result? what is the message for us? DHS
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 02:04:41
I plan to use 2 Sam. and David's dancing before God. Words that came to me (I love to dance) were the Joy of the Lord. With perhaps some ideas about the different ways in which Christians praise God -- some are more expressive and others are afraid to let their light shine. Christianity is a religion of JOY and resurrection. The God I worship is a gracious and loving God. Some early thoughts.
Rev Barb in MO
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 15:53:05
I too am disappointed by the lectionary committee's exclusion of key passages. Not just Uzzah's death, but the fact that David then in fear leaves the ark at Obededom's house, only to reclaim it when he learns that Obededom's household is blessed by its presence. Also the interaction between David and Michal in vv.20-23. But given the whole story, what to preach? I'm overwhelmed!
I'd thought about telling the whole thing from Michal's perspective ... or from Uzzah's. Or maybe use the lectionary committee's decision as a springboard for talking about how there are many points of view of every story, and that sometimes what we don't tell is as important as what we do tell. But this doesn't satisfy me, either.
I want to know: what is the good news in this text? What does it tell us about what God is doing, and what are we to do about it? Help??? Kay
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 16:11:43
David danced to worship God. His dancing was apart of his worship. I am thinking of taking a standpoint of "What does your worship bring about?" In the Gospel lesson the daughter's dancing (Worship) brought about the beheading of John the Baptist. You may not dance, you may just shed a few tears, but whatever you do to praise God, what does it bring about? Does it usher you into the presence of God or does it bring about emptiness. Just a few thoughts. RVP in Los Angeles
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 16:27:10
Oh! How about this ... that in the process of participating in the new thing God is doing, in the celebration of the progress of God's kingdom, we must be aware that there are those who will be hurt, even lost, by the process? Niether Uzzah nor Michal -- one a supporter, one a detractor -- survives this symbolic action that legitimizes David's new united monarchy and signifies the absolute end of Saul's reign. Still not sure where the good news is, but this seems to have implications for us as we continue to struggle, for example, with openness and inclusivity in the church. Neither "side", the old reign or the new, can celebrate "victories" without recognizing the inevitable loss of the other. ??? Kay
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 17:33:50
I am not disappointed that the sections are left out because the information is still available in the Scripture. Because I see the episodes in the Scriptures no matter the figures as an aspect of the Good news, I am fascinated by all of those involved. I begin by bringing no judgement on any. So I don't find Uzzah, Michal or David as a possible wrongdoer, so much as, what is this character's action resembling some of my own actions. Where am I thinking myself needing to help God out, assuming God is in trouble, and in the process killing my ministry. Aha, that is the concentration of my message. I have named it "Familiarity." Thanks as always for your thoughts. I am grateful to God for Frank, his vision, and all of you with your wisdom Shalom
Pasthersyl
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 20:28:51
Hey all, I am going to include the death of Uzzah in this sermon. In fact, it will be a major part of it all. The title is "A Place For Everything" and it will be along the idea that while God has called us to be partners with Him we are not His equal. And I believe that God does count on us to be His hands, feet, mouth etc...there are those times that we overstep the limits and we try to be God. Uzzah and the others were told not too touch the Ark, but Uzzah decided that he did not need to listen and that as good as his intentions were, they still broke the "orders" that God had given. Uzzah, like others before and others since, try to be God...try to be more than a partner...try to be an equal with God. In Jamaica on signs and busses is a simple yet powerful meesage...Let God be God. You see, everything has its place including us in our relationship with God. Oh well, sorry I rambled...just some thoughts. If interested in the some-what final product, email me and i will send it to you by Thursday. Again sorry for the ramblings,...
Marty in Texas mvershel@wesleyumc.com
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 20:43:56
In response to Pastersyl - Yes, David did dance before God. And in the dancing/celebration the nation was united. There was a good feeling. There was harmony and hope. Now, contrast that with the dancing in the Gospel text where the dancer asks for John to be be-headed. The result of that dancing brought about alienation, bad feelings, despair and depression. Who was being honored by the dance? What a difference it can make...
The Iowa Starr
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 21:09:21
I agree with Marty and Kay who are struggling with the God of Uzzah and the God of David. They belong side by side, they belong together. Too leave one side of God's activity out is not being honest with the text. To have the celebration only without acknowledging the fullness of God gives those we serve Santa Claus instead of Yahweh. Thanks for your insights! Jeff, WNY
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 22:22:19
Dear Iowa Starr I suppose the dancing isn't the issue of my reading of the pericope at this time (at another time, I'm sure it would be. For me God's word is informative to me. So I see Salome's dancing and asking for John the Baptist's head as a result of her mother and Stepfather's control of her. I've been there. I see Herodias not being willing to accept responsibility of her own misguided actions. I know I've done that. I see Herod not able to responsibly make a decision concerning John the Baptist (I've done that.) And I see John the Baptist take a stand regarding his call and mission (with Christ help, that has happened in my life). So if I were going to prepare my sermon on the gospel lesson, I would have to say that God has much to teach us from that pericope, and so God continues to be honored. However I feel God leading me to this Old Testament reading, and I am grateful for the leading of others toward the Scriptures to which God has lead them.
Shalom
Pasthersyl
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 22:22:48
Dear Iowa Starr I suppose the dancing isn't the issue of my reading of the pericope at this time (at another time, I'm sure it would be. For me God's word is informative to me. So I see Salome's dancing and asking for John the Baptist's head as a result of her mother and Stepfather's control of her. I've been there. I see Herodias not being willing to accept responsibility of her own misguided actions. I know I've done that. I see Herod not able to responsibly make a decision concerning John the Baptist (I've done that.) And I see John the Baptist take a stand regarding his call and mission (with Christ help, that has happened in my life). So if I were going to prepare my sermon on the gospel lesson, I would have to say that God has much to teach us from that pericope, and so God continues to be honored. However I feel God leading me to this Old Testament reading, and I am grateful for the leading of others toward the Scriptures to which God has lead them.
Shalom
Pasthersyl
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 22:24:15
oops forgive my double sending
Shalom
Pasthersyl
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 22:49:38
I find it interesting that several of us would rather focus on Uzzah's death than on the joy of King David's dance. This is exactly the point of my sermon.
The MO Starr
Date: 11 Jul 2000
Time: 22:51:44
I find it interesting that several of us would rather focus on Uzzah's death than on the joy of King David's dance. This is exactly the point of my sermon. We are so much more apt to find the negative or punishing aspect of scripture.
The MO Starr
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 00:12:57
One of the commentaries mentions the tremendous change that the movement of the Ark to Jerusalem represented to Israel- from a nomadic people wandering on their way through the desert to the land of promise, to a nation "like the other nations," with a real king. Jerusalem became the center of worship as well as the center of government. David's dancing before the Ark has an ambivalence about it to me- he's moving the ark (with apparently no mention of the need to move it from God), he's frightened by the power he sees, but he is also celebrating God and God's power. The recognition of the difference between David's power and God's sovereignty and power is clear! How like David are we? GFinSC
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 14:29:02
The exclusion of the incident with Uzzah leaves out some important messages which could be preached on this text. One such message could be built around the way in which we have developed a religion of 'convenience' at so many points in our Christian faith. What got Uzzah in trouble was the fact that they were transporting the Ark in the same way that the pagans had done rather than the way in which God had specifically instructed. Had David followed the directions of God Uzzah would never had been tempted to steady the Ark which brings up an interesting point for anyone who is a religious leader. At what point do our compromizes threaten the very people we seek to lead? One final thought, isn't it interesting that something as important as the Ark of the Covenant could be forgotten for any period of time. It is almost as if David thinks of it as an after-thought. Just a little rambling on my part. Sorry to take up so much space. Feedback welcome. Blacksmith in NC
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 15:50:25
Pasthersyl you asked "How do we actively demonstrate our desire to experience the presence of God whereever we are?" My first response was WORSHIP. We come together to worship, to praise and thank God for being in our midst, not just at church on suunday morning, but all the times and places of our lives.
Our private prayers is another place we begin. This then, hopefully, leads us and others out into the world with acts love and deeds of kindness which demonstrates to others the presence of God in our midst.
Our worship and prayer life both private and public also can assist us in seeing "Jesus" in other people. Sister Teresa is the best example I can think of here. She saw Jesus in the dirty, sick and dying old men of Calcutta. jmj in wi
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 17:09:04
The New Interpreter's Bible offers some helpful insight about this passage, particularly re: Michal, whose voice and story I can't seem to shake. Highly recommended.
Rather than giving Michal a bad rap as the nagging B., I imagine how painful it must have been to see the husband who never really loved her (though she loved him) dancing half-naked as he uses (for his own purposes) an ancient faith symbol to consolidate his power, indicating the complete demise of her father's legacy (which, admitedly, wasn't worth much ... but still, he was her father...) What does God look like to her? Can she see the value of the unashamed worship that David offers? I'm hoping that through her loss, she'll be able to find some kind of redemption in David's passionate relationship with God. But the way the story ends, with her forever childless, seems to say that she's the victim of her own blindness.
Such a tragic story, for everyone involved, including David and Israel -- due to the ambiguity of actions which are at the same time authentic and manipulative (as are most human "religious" endeavors, yes?). Can there be good news in tragedy? Can David's celebration bring hope/redemption to those who are hurting because of it?
I don't want to focus on the "negative" and avoid the celebration, but neither do I want to glaze over the pain in this passage in order to preach a happy sermon. Kay
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 17:34:34
As soon as I saw that the lectionary calendar had skipped some verses in this week's Old Testament reading, I knew that it was Uzzah's death it had omitted.
Just to make sure, however, I opened my Bible to Samuel chapter 6 and discovered that the Uzzah was not mentioned at all. Rather, God makes sure that no one touches the ark. It is instead to be pulled along by a pair of milch cows and accompanied by offerings of gold.
Oh, wait. My mistake. That was FIRST Samuel 6:5-11 not SECOND Samuel 6:5-11! Funny how the two processional stories of the Ark both occur in chapter 6.
DSS
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 17:48:38
But seriously...
Most people in our congregations will know if we are skipping over the Uzzah story. While everyone knows we can't preach on every passage, I don't think it would be pastoral not to mention this story.
The Uzzah story raises many questions. Foremost among them: why did God kill someone who was just trying to help? Should we really trust this God?
These are questions that I have heard many people ask their pastors and Sunday school teachers. Our congregations will be wanting to hear some words of explanation. They will be disappointed and might think less of either our courage or honesty if we ignore this story.
I am not saying we have to preach on it. I am giving a warning that we do not want to appear that we are afraid to face some of the more difficult questions that Scripture raises.
So, if you decide not to preach about the Uzzah story, at least recognize its presence. Or, you can do what I am doing: preach on Mark.
DSS
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 17:58:50
I'd love to expound upon the joy, the dancing and celebration but I cannot because of David's violence and cruelty. Here he is doing an "in your face" to Micheal. Some traditions say that she was childless because he refused to sleep with her. Certainly he married other wealthy women (usually married women) to increase his fortune. David does not want any of his sons to be Saul's decendants.
David's dancing is not a problem but his parading in naked or nearly naked in front of all his prospective wives, concubines, admirers etc. and in front of his wife, should never be extoled as something done in the Spirit as was written by David's own hand appointed historians, priests and scribes. Manzel
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 19:03:50
Does anyone have any intentions of linking the power of the ark with the movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark?" If so, how? It would seem to me that some of the ideas of the movie were spawned by the story of Uzzah and the ark. PK in Ohio
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Time: 19:52:24
Oh DSS....preach the Uzzah story. It is so much fun and filled with a great Word. Church folks simply do not hear the hard Old Testament stories enough. Have some fun....
LOL :) Marty in Beaumont, Texas
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 03:05:33
Kay, I have been working on the Michal point of view as well and each new insite makes the hero seem lest heroic. David, secures this wife he had forgotten about when his throne was threatened. All of a sudden, Saul's daughter seems needed for his political security. Abigal's property has secured his economic future,(who he stold from the fool Nabal), and Bathsheba secures his fertile producing of heirs (who he stold from Uriah). How does Michal feel being passed around by her father and her husbands. Is David's offering to God minimized? Husband's love your wives so that your prayers will not be hindered? And what about David's dancing with all his might until the Uzzah incident? Then when the ark is prosperous, he retrieves it? This is a story about securing David's throne and securing God in that assention to the throne. Maybe the good news is in the pain of human sinfulness and pain, the ark is still leading the procession. Pearl
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 04:58:12
There's certainly room to include what the lectionary committee has not. But, I'm actually focusing in on a juxtaposition of the Mark text with this one. Both have dancing, but for a change, the OT reading seems happier, read more good news, than the NT. I find the juxtaposition to hard to resist. Title: Two to tango. K in WA
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 06:05:13
I intend to preach on the text including the story of Uzzah. It seems to me that it does us and our congregations good to face a story that forces us to confront the limits of our knowledge. I find it entertaining to read the endless speculation regarding why Uzzah was struck down. The fact is we can't give a satisfactory exclamation, although some creative explanations have been set forth. And maybe this is what we have to face: in life (as in this narrative) a lot of things happen that we simply don't have an explanation for! So what do we do? We can retreat in fear and bitterness (as David did for a while) or we can decide that ultimately the blesssings of God's presence outweigh the unanswerable questions in life and join the celebration. Rejoicing and praise are rather shallow if they simply deny the unanswerable questions about suffering and tragedy that confront us daily. (I believe that it is Brueggeman who suggests that there is not genuine praise without genuine lament.) CSS
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 12:02:22
There is a song by Christian singer/songwriter called "Fisherman's Daughter" and in it the daughter who had drowned 7 years ago returns to speak to her father and she tells him that "she has been to the ball and seen her sweet Jesus and all that he wants them to do is dance.....dance with the lonely, dance with the lost, dance with the ones who to dance with will cost you, and when your worn out by the weight of that cross just dance..." There are more but I can't remember all of them Hope this helps. PC in KS
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 14:17:22
And isn't it Don Henley who recorded "All She Wants to Do is Dance ..."? Kay
Thanks for the thoughts re: Michal and Uzzah. Gee, I hate for David to come across as such a jerk, but the more I look at the text the more he reminds me of Jacob. Such a manipulative guy. And yet I admire his all-out worship! Maybe a message for me, if not for my sermon, is that even the manipulators and power-mongers of the world have authentic religious experiences, true faith relationships with God. And maybe even I, in all my own attempts to control my life and influence those around me -- including all the veiled and even subconscious manipulation that I perpetrate -- am not without hope. Maybe we all, big and small, do a lot wrong. That doesn't mean that our offerings to God are worthless or fake.
Now ... where does that put me with Michal's story? Kay
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 16:04:28
Is there a place in our dealing with this text to present the issues of total self-abandonment when we worship God, when we seek to unreservedly offer ourselves to God? The other side of the issue is the emphasis upon what is proper, what is so watered down that it couldn't possibly offend anyone. There seems to be so much restraint and constraint in some of us that we, like Michal, are more concerned with propriety than we are giving ourselves to God! Why was Michal not outside with everyone else celebrating joyously? Is this the case with some of us, more observers than participants in worship? Are we like John Wesley's bishop who said: "Enthusiasm in religion, Mr. Wesley, is a horrid notion!"? If so, we will probably identify more with Michal than with David. On the other hand, that certainly does not mean that "anything goes" in our public worship celebrations. In my opinion, as a clergy member of an "old line" denomination, I personally am seeking to find greater freedom in my public and private worship of God. What about you?
Blessings, Dave M. in Florida
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 17:50:14
I just finished a tentative draft for Sunday, and found myself focusing on how we seek to do "the right thing for the wrong reasons." David's motive in moving the ark, Uzzah's in reaching out to steady it, maybe even Michal's in "despising" her husband's loss of dignity. In SC we are being presented with the argument for a state-run lottery for education- is that like David taking it on himself to move the ark- something that might have a good motive, but is being done in a wrong manner? That may be wandering too far from the text.. and then again, maybe not. GFinSC
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 23:01:16
I have never posted before and don't know if it will work. I study this sight every week as I prepare for Sunday. Thought this work in to some of your thoughts if not your sermmons.
>>Imagine you and the Lord Jesus are walking down the road together. >>For much of the way, the Lord's footprints go along steadily, >>consistently, rarely varying the pace. >>But your footprints are a disorganized stream of zigzags, starts,stops, >>turnarounds,>> circles, departures and returns >>For much of the way, it seems to go like this, but gradually your >>footprints come more in line with the Lord's, soon paralleling >>His consistently.>>You and Jesus are walking as true friends! >>This seems perfect, but then an interesting thing happens: >>Your footprints, that one etched the sand next to Jesus', are now >>walking precisely in His steps. >>Inside His larger footprints are your smaller ones, safety you andJesus >>are becoming one. >>This goes on for many miles, but gradually you notice another change. >>The footprints inside the large footprints seem to grow larger. >>Eventually the disappear altogether. >>There is only one set of footprints; they have become one. >>This goes on for a long time, but suddenly the second set offootprints >>is back.>>This time it seems even worse!>>Zigzags all over the place.>>Stops. >>Starts.>> gashes in the sand.>>A veritable mess of prints. >>You are amazed and shocked.>>Your dream ends. >>Now you pray: "Lord, I understand the first scene with zigzags. >>I was a new Christian; I was just learning. >>But you walked on through the storm and helped me learn to walk with>>you." >>"That is correct." >>"... and when the smaller footprints were inside of Yours, I was >>actually learning to walk in Your steps; followed you closely." >>"Very good. You have understood everything so far." >>"... when the smaller footprints grew and filled in Yours, >> I suppose that I was becoming like you in every way.">>"Precisely." >>"So, Lord, was there a regression or something? >> The footprints separated, and this time it was worse than atfirst." >>There is a pause as the Lord answers with a smile in his voice. >>"You didn't know? That was when we danced." >>To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose underheaven: >>A time to weep, a time to laugh; A time to mourn, and a time to dance. >> Ecclesiastes 3:1,4.
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 23:08:29
My posting worked. Because I copied and email it has html stuff in it and I can't spell. And I forgot to sign it. Kathy in MO
Date: 13 Jul 2000
Time: 23:23:01
My posting worked. Excuse the html stuff which come from copying an email and pasting it here. I can't spell and forgot to sign my posting. Kathy in MO
Date: 14 Jul 2000
Time: 00:48:22
Doug in Riverside. Great question about how certain 'objects' get to be associated with the sacred. Have you ever read "The Golden Bough"? (I took a course on this stuff at St. Regis in Toronto (Jesuits). I think the key concepts are power (say the power to create a universe, mystery, etc,) and will (what is the will / intention of "God") and form. (I think there was one other key concept). So the questions are, who is this God revealling his will in a covenant with Abraham & Sarah, to raise up a nation? What is his will or intention? How do we know that? Does the covenant box become one of the 'forms' that expresses the 'will' of God, reminding us of God's 'power' to fulfill the covenant? Is the cross (or the Bible) a similar form for some people? (Reminding us of God's will and power to create, to give life, to act in love)? I suppose, finally, the question might be, does dance to this for us as well? Say David's dance, and the trek with the box that ends with King David feeding people a nut and raisin loaf? Is Salome's dance the dance of worldly power that seeks to silence the voice(s) of God? Why is Jesus, the "Lord of the Dance" so soon after John's death, expressing the will / intention of God to feed the people (the multitudes) with loaves and fishes and the bread of heaven. Can the form of dance speak to us of God's power, intentions and will as clearly as the cross, the Bible and the Covenant Box. Hope my ramblings are useful. Jeff in Northern Ontario.
Date: 14 Jul 2000
Time: 00:50:34
Doug in Riverside. Great question about how certain 'objects' get to be associated with the sacred. Have you ever read "The Golden Bough"? (I took a course on this stuff at St. Regis in Toronto (Jesuits). I think the key concepts are power (say the power to create a universe, mystery, etc,) and will (what is the will / intention of "God") and form. (I think there was one other key concept). So the questions are, who is this God revealling his will in a covenant with Abraham & Sarah, to raise up a nation? What is his will or intention? How do we know that? Does the covenant box become one of the 'forms' that expresses the 'will' of God, reminding us of God's 'power' to fulfill the covenant? Is the cross (or the Bible) a similar form for some people? (Reminding us of God's will and power to create, to give life, to act in love)? I suppose, finally, the question might be, does dance to this for us as well? Say David's dance, and the trek with the box that ends with King David feeding people a nut and raisin loaf? Is Salome's dance the dance of worldly power that seeks to silence the voice(s) of God? Why is Jesus, the "Lord of the Dance" so soon after John's death, expressing the will / intention of God to feed the people (the multitudes) with loaves and fishes and the bread of heaven. Can the form of dance speak to us of God's power, intentions and will as clearly as the cross, the Bible and the Covenant Box. Hope my ramblings are useful. Jeff in Northern Ontario.
Date: 14 Jul 2000
Time: 04:43:10
Thinking about Uzzah, I wonder if his steadying the ark was an attempt to save God (how absurb) when God's plan is to save us? How often we rely on ourselves to make God's plan work instead of celebrating. This passage doesn't seem to be about David as much as it is about God and people's response to God's goodness. Oh, how I need to be about celebrating and witnessing and praising God with all my being. Oh, how often I look out from my own little world with contempt on those who have been freed from their fears and know real joy--how often my own perverted sense of righteousness would attempt to squelch God's parade. God forgive me and teach me to dance. Peace to all and enjoy God! Fisherfolk in OH
Date: 14 Jul 2000
Time: 13:38:05
to Kathy in MO thanks for the dance!!!!!!! great illustration, not to worry about html, It is not the time for throwing stones, but the time to give thanks! I know it goes A time to cast away stones; and also; He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: it is the gift of God.
It was certainly a time to speak;
Thanks! Shalom weldiger in NC
Date: 14 Jul 2000
Time: 15:07:15
This is for 'Fisherfolk in OH'. (this is also my first posting) Loved what you had to say about our contempt for God's people who are liberated from fears and who know joy, and how our insecurities would attempt to squelch God's parade. How true. We are truly called to dance with God, each of us, in every way. Thanks to you for your words and to all who post. This is a fab site! (esp. for students/beginners like me) LK @ C St.
Date: 14 Jul 2000
Time: 15:48:16
pc in ks -- I liked the "Fisherman's Daughter" thing and am using it near the climax of my sermon. I did some digging on the net prompted by your post, and here's what I found:
SINGER / SONGWRITER Christopher Grundy
The Fisherman's Daughter
Some songs are the result of much thought and planning. Others sort of happen to you. I didn't set out to write this particular story. The various layers of the story developed as the song progressed, starting in the middle and growing towards the ending and beginning. It could be about the twenty-first chapter of John's gospel. Or it could just be a ghost story -- whichever works better for you.
Stars growing dim by the lakeside huddled up close to the fire the fish weren't biting as much as the cold was and all of us bitter and tired,
then out from the mist and the shadows and so pale with the moon on her skin up from the water, my own lovely daughter she looked us all over and grinned
she said, "You're scaring the fish with those long sullen faces lighten up or you won't stand a chance I have been to the ball and I've seen my sweet Jesus and all that he wants you to do, is dance."
She said, "Dance with the lonely, dance with the lost dance with the ones whom to dance with will cost you and when you're worn out from the weight of that cross just dance gently and slowly, dance."
The boys they were reaching for whiskey the tears they were burning my eyes seven hard years since we'd stood on that shoreline cursing the waves and the skies
She said, "Dad, are you sure you still love me?" I said, "Darling, you know that I do. not a day ever goes by that I don't see your eyes there in the water's deep blue."
She said, "Then dance with the hungry, the naked and blind with the ones who are chained in their body or mind go and dance even when you know they're bound to fall and when you know that they have no legs at all."
Refrain
Then she picked up my sandwich and tore it in half started passing it 'round and I laughed and I laughed 'cause my eyes they were opened and my feet they were light and I could have danced all night she said
Refrain
gently and slowly, dance in somebody's arms, maybe, dance dance if you love me, dance...
©1997 Hand and Soil Music
-- dave k. <>< <jadekepple@aol.com>
Date: 14 Jul 2000
Time: 16:14:11
Fisherfolk Your words speak to the thoughts I've had about my sermon for Sunday called "familiarity." Thanks for your words of how we try to help God by killing the joy of others. It also helps with some issues happening to persons within my congregation, and my own temptation to "help God" because I'm afraid God's image might fall Shalom
Pasthersyl
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 01:39:10
To Kathy in MO, Thanks again for your story of the Dance. I am using it in sermon for Sunday. Who has copywright on it? I would like to use on my web page. Thanks weldiger in NC
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 03:36:32
i HAVE JUST DISCOVERED THIS SITE AND HAVE FOUND THE SUBMISSIONS BY OTHERS TO BE VERY INTERESTING AND HELPFUL. I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT HOW IN ENGLAND THEY ARE CELEBRATING THE 100 BIRTHDAY OF THE QUEEN MOTHER, THE 70TH BIRTHDAY OF PRINCESS MARGARET, THE 50TH BIRTHDAY OF PRINCESS ANNE AND THE 18TH BIRTHDAY OF PRINCE WILLIAM. WHILE THERE IS JOY IN THESE EVENTS, I ASSUME THE CELEBRATIONS WILL BE CONDUCTED WITH A CERTAIN PROPERNESS. NOT SO WITH DAVID. HE CELEBRATED AT THE RETURN OF THE ARK WITH JOYOUS RECKLESS ABANDON. MUCH TO THE EMBARRASSMENT OF MICHAL, HIS WIFE. MAYBE A LITTLE LIKE I HAVE EMBARRASSED MY TEENAGE CHILDREN OVER THE PAST YEARS. MAYBE THERE IS A LESSON HERE IN THE "PROPERNESS" OF OUR OWN WORSHIP. IN OTHER WORDS, IN OUR CHRISTIAN WORSHIP, DO WE NOT NEED TO LET OURSELVES GO WITH A LITTLE MORE JOY IN THE EXPRESSIONS OF OUR FAITH THROUGH WORSHIP? REV. TIM
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 03:55:01
Hi, The 2 Sam. reading has much to preach on and about. Since the United dChurch of Christ is emphasizing "dancing," I decided to put my efforts that way. It seems to me that the Scripture is not really about David but the presence of God. What happens to one when he/she is in God's presence and God is in her/his presence? I believe that there is joy and abandonment of all the things that limit a true understanding of who God is.
One must remember that all the people of Israel did not have access of the Ark that housed God; therefore, for them God was not present in their lives. Now, David brings the Ark to Jerusalem where all can come to be in God's presence.
Certainly, some of us have felt that God has left us. But, when we have felt God's presence come back, we are ready to dance mightily to the glory of God.
I don't completely know where this is going, but "Let's Dance With David." HJinCA P.s. PK in Ohio Is there a need to deal with the "Raiders of the Lost Ark," a movie?
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 04:12:41
Another thought before I leave. On Sunday I will be preaching about the abandoned, boisterous (did I spell that right) joy of David, and the hymns andprayers will reflect this. Then in the afternoon I have to find that joy in the Lord for a family who just lost a 2 year old girl and a 5 year old boy in a home fire caused by the children playing with matches or a lighter upstairs while Mom was downstairs in the kitchen making supper. This is also a familt that I will be needing to share the joyous love of God with who do not have a church connection. I trust I will be able to learn something from David and his trust in God as I trust in God with a certain joy even in the midst of such a tragic death. Rev. Tim, serving a village church community in Southern Ontario, Canada.
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 11:55:32
Rev Tim, For everything there is a season and there are times(as with the tragedy with Uzzah and the situations you are dealing with) that, bewildered and unable to understand, we must take a break from our rejoicing and mourn. Then God will show us that goodness and blessing are still the plan and we can REALLY rejoice with all our heart and soul and mind and strength. Peace and blessings on your ministry. Fisherfolk in OH
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 13:16:04
To wediger in NC
The story of the dance was sent to me as SPAM on the net. No credit was given to anyone and as you can see by the htmls, it has been on the net and a while. I think that makes it fair game. Thank you for your kind words. I too am using this as my church is a typical small UMC with average age about 80 and sometimes they forget the joy of today in reliving yesterday.
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 13:49:36
forgot to sign my last posting again. Kathy in MO
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 14:50:04
Anyone familiar with the popular country-western song by LeeAnn Womack, "I Hope You Dance"? Theme line runs like this: "When you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance."
It's a choice. Can any Christian watch from a safe distance as did Michel and still be productive sitting out the work and joy of worship?
I hope you Dance! Sheryl from Iowa
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 18:55:02
Good to see so many struggling to deal w/text w/integrity, as opposed to downplaying those sections that the biblical author kept in (Uzziah & Micahl) but we (& lectionary committees) too readily “dance over.” Unfortunately, the complexity of the story almost makes this more appealing for a Bible study, where justice can be done to the whole story!
As to the “good news” here — is it possible that in seeking to tease out something “happy” we miss the deeper authenticity of this passage —– of the shock of Uzziah’s death & the depth of Michal’s grief? Of David dancing with abandon despite the loss he seems oblivious to all around him?
I wonder what Michal’s dance would look like — slow, mournful, and equally genuine. What if David had paused instead and taken her hand, joining her grief that she might begin to join his joy?
As Brueggemann indicates, sometimes the text is what it is: distant, strange, “too close for comfort.” Our people have those experiences in life; now — dare we name them out loud? It’s harder to do it this way, but it just may be more honest.
Bill in western NY
Date: 15 Jul 2000
Time: 19:21:28
To Fisherfolk in OH, Thanks for your thoughts. I will be okay in this but I do appreciate the thought that we sometimes need to take a break from our rejoicing and mourn. In the sadness of the moment it is a good reminder that out of these tragedies we address in our ministries, God does show us, as you have said, the goodness and blessing that is ours and those we minister to and with. So let us all this weekend, rejoice with David in the midst of the tragedy of Uzzah and of Michal. Rev. Tim, Sheffield, Ontario