Date: 30 May 2000
Time: 19:55:17
testing, testing
Date: 02 Jun 2000
Time: 11:58:21
I am looking for an idea for a short drama based on the Isaiah passage. Any suggestions? Peg
Date: 12 Jun 2000
Time: 15:56:42
Peg, I don't have any suggestions - but I plan to preach on this passage Sunday. We are sending off a team of 14 teenagers and six adults on a mission trip to Mexico. This is a wonderful thing for our congregation who has raised around $12,000 for the trip. I really want to sermon to "reach" the kids as well as inform and instruct the adults in our congregation. Any suggestions?
Jude in Wash
Date: 12 Jun 2000
Time: 22:44:47
Hey Jude (I just had to do that), When are you going to Mexico? Is to Cuernavaca? We have a group going in August (six adults and eight youths). I am just getting going on this week's stuff so nothing to add, at least at this time, but noticed about the trip. Deke of the North
Date: 12 Jun 2000
Time: 22:48:24
Jude, it me again. Just thought that if you are going to Cuernavaca too I would like to hear from you my e-mail address is <auch@cyberus.ca>. Deke of the North
Date: 13 Jun 2000
Time: 11:40:34
Jude, have been giving some thought to your search for thoughts to reach the young people. The Isaiah text is about a call and response. I am thinking of connecting with Nicodemus around the idea of "mystery" (not a bad idea for Trinity Sunday - check out Susan's children's story). Both approach God but with a difference being their "vision". Isaiah knew the awesomeness and felt the humility. Nic knew the head stuff and threw up road blocks (how can a man re-enter the womb?) I don't recall the source of the saying but it goes like this: Without a task, a vision is a dream Without a vision, a task is drudgery A vision and a task together are the hope of the world.
Hope this is helpful. Deke of the North
Date: 13 Jun 2000
Time: 13:44:07
Just some early musings about this Sunday. In England, it’s Father’s Day this Sunday, so I’m thinking of using that as a possible link with the Trinity.
I might use Rubliev’s Icon of the Trinity, which has the Spirit drawing us into relationship with the Father through the Son. The whole purpose of Jesus’ ministry was to make the Father known, and to draw us into the relationship of love that exists within the community of the Trinity.
This gives a whole new slant on Father’s Day!
We also have an annual Folk Festival in our town this weekend, and our church has hosted a special ‘Folk Service’ for a number of years. I’m looking for a way to connect with the Folk Festival visitors, who may not be Christians. I though that I might link in the Trinity also with music and talk about chords in music ... you need three notes to make a chord, and when you use chords in music, you get harmony as well as melody. The community of the Trinity is a little like a chord, with each note contributing something distinct, yet there is unity in the whole.
It’s traditional for the preacher to sing something during the service, and I have chosen the song ‘Father we adore you, lay our lives before you, how we love you.’ The other verses continue in a similar vein ... Jesus we adore you ... Spirit we adore you.
This song can be sung in a round, and when you sing it like this, the harmonies come out clearly. It’s a really simple tune and I’m hoping that when we sing it, it will be one of those moments when people will understand at more than an intellectual level something of the beauty of the Godhead.
The other thing that’s happening is that we have some Morris dancers who will be dancing at the entrance to our church as people come in. I might use dance as an illustration of the Trinity also ... (One of the dances we have in England is dancing round a Maypole where the individual dancers hold ribbons and weave in and out to make a pattern with the ribbons.(a bit like the notes of the chord)
I realise that I’m in danger of overloading the service with too many ideas, so I’ll have to be selective. I am very fortunate in having these three things that illustrate the Trinity actually happening in the service (Father’s Day ... folk music and folk dancing). You may not have quite the same opportunities that I have, but maybe the three illustrations can provide you with some ideas.
Rev Ev in UK.
Date: 13 Jun 2000
Time: 18:24:03
Thanks Deke of the North! I like the idea of the task, vision, dream, drudgery - especially following up on last weeks text about "your old men will see visions, your young men will dream dreams." I've never heard the saying of which you speak. Is it a quote from someone? Or perhaps a cultural "proverb?" So...maybe I'll explore with the youth the notion that without the vision of what they are doing, it will be drudgery, but with the vision, they will surely experience something else, the fulfillment of the call of God, etc.
Jude in Wash.
Date: 13 Jun 2000
Time: 19:58:20
I'm struck in this passage that Isaiah goes into the temple as a priest, the leader, to provide the religious experience for the other worshippers, knowing what to expect. But then the unexpected happens, he sees a vision, and worship does not proceed as usual. How many of us as pastors goes into our worship experience, knowing what should happen (after all,we've been planning it all week)and then are suprised as God intervenes. Suddenly Isaiah the priest doesn't know what to do. He is awe struck, realizing that he is unclean. What can he do? The answer is nothing. God provides the clensing through hot coal that allows him to prophecy. I see a lot of similarities to Nicodemus in the gospel. Another religious leader who knows the answer, yet comes to Jesus knowing his knowing is no longer enough. The leader is no longer leading but riding the wave of a new advent of God. I don't know where I'm going with this, but it seems that pesky Holy Spirit can be detrimental to all the planning we religious leaders have been doing. Lisa
Date: 13 Jun 2000
Time: 19:58:55
I'm struck in this passage that Isaiah goes into the temple as a priest, the leader, to provide the religious experience for the other worshippers, knowing what to expect. But then the unexpected happens, he sees a vision, and worship does not proceed as usual. How many of us as pastors goes into our worship experience, knowing what should happen (after all,we've been planning it all week)and then are suprised as God intervenes. Suddenly Isaiah the priest doesn't know what to do. He is awe struck, realizing that he is unclean. What can he do? The answer is nothing. God provides the clensing through hot coal that allows him to prophecy. I see a lot of similarities to Nicodemus in the gospel. Another religious leader who knows the answer, yet comes to Jesus knowing his knowing is no longer enough. The leader is no longer leading but riding the wave of a new advent of God. I don't know where I'm going with this, but it seems that pesky Holy Spirit can be detrimental to all the planning we religious leaders have been doing. Lisa
Date: 13 Jun 2000
Time: 20:37:55
Some more thoughts for Jude: The last verse of the passage contain the question: "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" and the response "Here am I; send me!" This strikes me as the call and response that the teenagers and adults are responding to in their mission work. Perhaps it would give you an opportunity to explain that ministry is not just something done by ordained clergy, but something all Christians are called to by their baptism. Hope this helps. MN
Date: 13 Jun 2000
Time: 23:12:41
Would it work to use this Isaiah text to talk about one's call to ministry? I am the intern pastor for the summer (just finished second year of seminary), and this will only be my second Sunday preaching at this particular church. Very few members of the congregation have heard my "call story" yet, and I could easily tie it into Father's Day, since my dad has had such an influence on my decision to answer the call. I am nervous about being TOO oriented toward Father's Day, because I know there are people for whom this is a very difficult holiday, because of paternal abuse, or the recent death of a father, etc. I preached on Mother's Day at my last church, and I found ways of being sensitive to such situations, but I am not quite sure how to do it with this Father's Day sermon. First of all would like to know if it even works to tie Isaiah 6:1-8 into a call to ministry story. It was, after all, a bit of a lightning bolt experience. Any ideas?
In peace, Desiree
Date: 14 Jun 2000
Time: 12:46:51
Wow, the thoughts just keep coming. Thanks so much all of you. Desiree, I think the congregation would not only enjoy but benefit from hearing your "call" story. Who knows how the spirit will touch their listening?
Rev. Ev in UK, the "folk festival" and service sound intiguing. My parents were from England and my mother's family were part of a festival each June. I believe it was called the Pretty Maid or something. Do you know anything about that. She was from Devonshire. Deke of the North
Date: 14 Jun 2000
Time: 14:13:19
Hi all.
One quick thought. It seems to me that we frequently skip over verses 6 and 7. Without the cleansing moment, the Call would go un-responsed-to (is that a word?), the Call would be heard as an impossibility (at least as far a Isaiah was concerned (see v. 5)).
I also like the fact (being the Lutheran that I am! :-) ) that the cleansing comes befor the Call is even issued, and before the response is even possible. Given that we are celebrating a baptism this Sunday, looks like my sermon has just written itself!
Thanks for listening.
Rick in Canada, eh?
Date: 14 Jun 2000
Time: 15:10:45
I will be preaching from the Isaiah text as well. The verses which caught my attention was the "Woe, is me!" I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell people of unclean lips." Paraphrased, but you know what I mean. I asked myself the question "Why don't we hear God calling?" This passage seems to focus on unworthiness, shame, guilt, fear. Are these excuses? or wounds which need healing before we can respond to the call of God? What are our excuses "after the angel cleanses our lips?" What are our opportunities in this congregation to respond to God's call. I am unworthy -- BUT "My eyes have seen the king, the Lord of Hosts!" Belssings, Barb from Missouri
Date: 14 Jun 2000
Time: 15:30:56
Thanks to all for your helpful sermon starters and ideas. I have been thinking about how painful this cleansing is. How many of us would run up and say, OK God, stick those hot coals on my lips again! OUCH! But no pain is mentioned, just a joyful response to the calling. Sometimes we focus so much on the love that God has for us (john 3:16) and God's words of forgiveness that we forget that there was pain involved for that forgiveness. We do not feel the pain from the coals because Jesus has taken that pain upon himself at the cross. Sometimes I think that we too quickly move to forgiveness without recognizing the pain involved for our forgiveness. If those coals were burning hot, would we continue to sin again and again? Maybe I am talking about cheap grace here? But I also feel that people need to hear that word of grace. That is what I believe proclaimation is all about...any suggestions to help with this dilemna? Preachen in KS.
Date: 14 Jun 2000
Time: 18:43:33
A story that might be helpful, Jude . . . Last week our children's ministry coordinator was participating in an event with about a hundred children, first through sixth grade. As it came together, the adult leadership realized that the age groups were very uneven. They had sixth grade classes that were too large and a third grade class that was very small. The adults, in their wisdom, commissioned Lynn to go to the sixth grade class, pull 8 students out, and move them to the third grade class. She was very reluctant, knowing that sixth graders do not like being put with younger children. Nevertheless, she went into the class room, where the sixth grade group was having a grand time, and said, "Y'all listen up! [We're in Texas] I need 8 volunteers to . . ." Every hand in the room shot into the air, "Me! Me! I'll do it!" She warned them, "You don't even know what I'm going to ask you to do yet!" They just kept on waving their hands and saying, "Pick me! Pick me!" She said, "You, you, you, you, you, you, you, and you, come with me," and the chosen ones cheered and those left said, "Awww." As they walked across the courtyard, Lynn explained, "The third grade class is too small, and your class was too large, so we need you all to come be in the third grade class." She waited to see how many defectors there might be. One of them said, "Cool, we'll be the oldest ones in the class," and all of them kept going, on a new adventure.
I was struck by the sense of adventure, the embracing of the unknown that comes with children having a high trust level (The children trust Lynn). Isaiah says, "Here I am. Send me," without knowing what he is to tell the people. Read the next few verses, and you'll see that while it is adventurous and meaningful, it will not be a fun, positive experience at every moment. If my own mission experience outside my own culture is any indicator, Jude, I expect that your young people and adults will find that their week will be full of adventure and meaning and hard work. It will be a week of faith formation that they will look back on when someone asks them, "Tell me about your journey of faith." It will not, however, always be fun and easy. It may well be challenging and risky, like Isaiah's call to tell God's word.
Hope this helps. Dark Horse in TX
Date: 15 Jun 2000
Time: 12:41:46
Our bulletin cover this week says, "Holy, Holy, Holy" on it. I'm going to preach on this theme. If "holy" means "different" or "unique", then it should fit somehow into Trinity Sunday to preach on three ways that God is different than we are. I am thinking of transcendent, immanent, and utterly compassionate. And I hope to tie the three persons of the Trinity into this. (I love the three note chord -- thanks!) My problem is that this is a very heady sermon topic. I am much more comfortable writing sermons that focus on Christian behavior and attitudes. Any suggestions as to how I could make this sermon "practical"? Thanks! JD from WI
Date: 15 Jun 2000
Time: 13:35:59
6,15.2000
Holy, Holy, Holy. What a glorious song. What a glorious concept. A Triune God - One God so seperated from the common things of the world, so different from the Baals, from the false gods, from the concepts of humankind of what God really is. Could it be the reason that the prophet was "Woe is me," was due to the fact that he had not always spoken the truth to the flock? Could it be that he had told them the pleasant things about God and neglected to preach those things which burn sin out of the lives of the hearer? Is it possible that preaching in any age is difficult in that those who speak for God do so with lips that utter cursings, that stray from the whole truth, that want their hearers to "like them.?" I wonder how many of those who regularily preach the Word are willing to have their lips burned with the cleansing truth? I wonder how many preachers will have the courage to preach all the truth about God and not just what the masses enjoy hearing? What would happen if those who preached God's Word began to do so in a way in which the hot coal of God was passed on to the listener? I don't believe there is anything such as cheap grace because the price that was paid for the dispensation of grace was so great. However, I do believe that there is a false grace. A grace that says that God's church can practice sin and still recieve grace, that God's church can be unrepentant and still recieve grace, that God's church will escape God's wrath which will be poured out against sin. False grace is the grace that leaves lives unchanged. False grace is the grace that leaves people saying to God when God calls, "Who, me?" False grace haunts the church, the pulpits, and the flock. Will we preach the hot coal of truth this Sunday or will we pour out more sugar coated gospel that leaves peoples hearts and minds unchanged, unconvicted, unrepented? Dale in KS
Date: 15 Jun 2000
Time: 22:08:53
The Rev. Pamela Lee Cranston St. Cuthbert's Episcopal Church 207 Taurus Ave. Oakland, CA 94611 © 2000 (Feel free to use this but with acknowledgement - and kindly let me know. Pamela Cranston.)
And Isaiah Said
(For Dr. Roderick B. Dugliss)
The golden egg of a Harvest moon rolls on the rim of my night's horizon. I look up, wondering about new beginnings.
I am talking about finding true ground - the secret source of inner speech. How do I claim my Voice, silent as a sea anemone, after all these years?
They say the Maori speak only from the ground where their placenta is buried, from where their bones will quietly lie down in that final berth.
What would it take to speak from that ground? To let my ripened tongue find its talent for telling?
And I think now of Isaiah, that old priest in the Temple, shrinking behind his scrolls and thuribles, when the Call suddenly flared up.
He would never forget it. The day was etched on the calendar of his heart.
It was the sheer immensity that trammeled his soul.
How the diamond-robed density filled deep space, rising bigger than Andromeda, and how the six winged Seraphs -
bright pinwheels of Glory, sputtering star-shreds sparked from the core of God's volcanic bestowing - flew to his face
bearing the hot coal of Christ, the Tao, the Torah, the unuttered, unlettered Word, and seared his lips open.
Smudged clean by the ashes of adoration, two words fell like embers from his scorched lips:
"Send me."
Date: 16 Jun 2000
Time: 18:32:58
I haven't had a chance to read through all of the discussion so forgive me if this idea has already been taken. In conjunction with the Gospel reading, I have titled my sermon Instant Servant: Just Add Fire & Water. Joining Isaiah's experience with Jesus' teaching that we must be born of the Spirit (fire) and through Baptism (water). Hopefully more later. RevMACDaddy
Date: 16 Jun 2000
Time: 20:48:48
THE SILENT TREATMENT by David Gladwell Based on Isaiah 6 v 1-8 (and to the end of chapter) and John 3 v. 1-7.
Since this is Father’s day, I thought it would be appropriate if I said a few words especially to Father’s this morning. The subject I want to talk about is ‘the silent treatment’ – I’m sure all of you dad’s have experienced this extremely refined form of torture. Now I don’t want to give anything away of a strategic nature to our beloved and better halves – so I’m going to turn the mike off for a second so that only the Dad’s will hear. (Turn mike off and proceed to speak without uttering a sound for 30 seconds or so.) (Turn mike back on and start speaking again). Now I hope those pointers will be a great help for all you guys next time you get the silent treatment. It’s a funny thing though, you never find out exactly what you did wrong, at least in our house anyway, you get these pointed statements that just stop short of revealing exactly what the problem is and how you could actually do something about it. But that’s not the point you see, the point is not to solve the problem, the point is that we suffer for . . . . . .well we’re not quite sure what we’re suffering for. The first thing I do is figure out which month it is – just to make sure I didn’t forget a birthday, second check is for the anniversary – “oh good we’re still in June – a whole month to forget that one!”. The second thing to do is find a safe place to hide, I have a barn so I’m pretty lucky, but a garage or a workshop is just as good. The Church office is pretty useful for hiding in too! The next thing is to perfect the art of not looking directly at one’s beloved until the silent treatment is over. This is to avoid THE GLARE. The Glare is a powerful weapon, and should it catch you full in the eyes, well, you’re just finished – so at all costs – avoid the Glare. In my experience the best thing to do is find a job that takes all your time and attention for a few days and just go get on with it, making it very obvious when you do meet ‘you know who’ how much your enjoying life and particularly enjoying the opportunity to get this big job done.
The Silent Treatment.
Isaiah was getting the silent treatment too, not from his wife but from all the people around him. From verse 9 on:
Be ever hearing, but never understanding; Be ever seeing, but never perceiving. Make the heart of this people calloused; Make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And turn and be healed.
As we read this passage, it is hard to understand. Why would God send Isaiah out to say words that would never be understood, that would never cause people to turn to God. It seems such a waste to us. The passage is unintelligible to us! We are among the people that do not understand what this particular silent treatment is all about. We don’t understand because to us, what matters is results. We want to see students getting high marks, businesses making money, Churches getting filled with people, people living changed lives for God. There’s nothing wrong with any of those things – in fact in their own way they are all quite laudable. But that’s not where God is at, and neither is it where Isaiah is at. I recently watched a movie called Paradise Road. It has been out for some years, but I had never noticed it before. It is about a group of women who are held in a concentration camp in Sumatra after the fall of Singapore in WWII. They are treated atrociously by the Japanese jailers; beaten, tortured; one Chinese woman was even burnt alive for smuggling quinine into the camp to help another woman with Malaria. The women’s eventual response to this treatment is to form a voice choir where they reproduce awesomely beautiful classical music. The jailers cannot understand this and break up the choir practices with violence. Eventually, though the jailers too succumb to the beauty of the music and sit and listen. Paradise road is a movie about silent treatment and it also happens to be a true story. Paradise road is about women who dared to express the wondrous beauty of life in the most godforsaken hell on earth. Where is Isaiah at? Isaiah is in the presence of the Living God, huge, awesome, immense before tiny Isaiah. Thundering and shaking. The angel voices beat through his body. Isaiah is ruined, it seems pulled, bone from bone. His body aches all over. He is consumed with the extreme holiness and purity of God. “God, help me” cries Isaiah, weeping, flat out, near dead on the floor. An angel flies with a burning, hot coal and touches his lips with it. Scalded, blistering, bloody, his lips are sealed, but he is purified, no longer unclean, but clean like a new-born babe. As the voice of God booms across space and time “Whom shall I send?”. Tiny Isaiah, lips cracked and bleeding, whispers to the floor, “Here am I. Send me!”. Isaiah is not concerned with his theology marks, he is not concerned with how much money he has in the bank, about how full the Church is, or not. He has met the Living God, and barely survived the experience. An experience he can never forget, that haunts him day and night, an experience that drives him, forces him to speak of God as he sees the lackluster lives being lived around him. They give him the silent treatment. They do not listen to his sermons. They do not fill his pews. They do not understand this crazy fanatic who calls out about God’s impending judgement. How long? How long? Cries Isaiah in his prayers. How long do I have to put up with this, I long to be back in Your Holy Presence. How long? God’s answer should chill us to the bone:
Until the cities lie ruined and without inhabitant, Until the houses are left deserted and the fields ruined and ravaged, Until the Lord has sent everyone far away and the land is utterly forsaken.
In other words – until they are devastated before me as you were in the temple Isaiah. There is no alternative, either know Me in the devastation of worship, or you will be forced to know Me in the devastation that is life and death on earth.
Maybe God is giving us the silent treatment, waiting for us, hoping that we will choose worship instead of a life of hellish disappointment.
“You must be born again” says Jesus to Nicodemus. Such language was nonsense to Nicodemus – unintelligible. Nicodemus was like the unclean people around Isaiah – they could see something amazing had happened to Isaiah. But what? Nicodemus could see everyone was listening to Jesus, but what was Jesus saying that was so significant? Born again of the Spirit? Ridiculous! Nicodemus looked, but he did not see, he listened but he did not hear – at least at first. We know from later in John (John 19:39) where we see him bringing 75lbs of myrrh for Jesus’ burial that Nicodemus did see and understand in the end. We don’t know about Isaiah’s countryfolk.
Have you seen? Do you understand?
Some people ask me, how are YOU going to fill the empty pews? Some gentler people say, how are WE going to fill the pews? How are WE going to get more young people into Church?
I don’t hear God answering these questions. Maybe God is giving us the silent treatment. Maybe God waits for us to ask the right questions. Maybe God waits for us to ask: How can we see? How can we understand?
Maybe God waits in silence until we begin to ask, “God show yourself to us like you did to Isaiah. Devastate us, scald our lips with burning coal that we may be purified.” God, ask us “Whom shall I send?”.
Of course, if we ever ask that question, then God will certainly answer it – so we had better be jolly certain we want it answered.
Will we say, “Here am I, send me.” ?
The people will look at us and not see, hear us and not understand. They will give us the silent treatment. But, we will not care that pews are empty, for our focus will be on the Living God, all our mind and thought and praise will be for our awesome, loving Daddy. Amen.
Date: 17 Jun 2000
Time: 15:25:15
Wow. The sermon just came tumbling out this week and I want to thank all of you who gave such good suggestions - Thanks to Dark Horse, Deke of the North, Rev Ev, Dale in KS, MN, Barb from Missouri and Preeaching in Kansas. After the sermon was finished, I read over everyone's suggestions and realized that my entire service has parts suggested by you all. We are singing "Holy, Holy, Holy," and "Father, I adore you." We are commissioning the team with thoughts from Deke of the North, and I especially zeroed in on the hot coals and "Woe is me" parts of the scripture thanks to MN and Preachin. Have a blessed Sunday and my God bless your socks off all week long! Thanks, Jude in Wash
Date: 17 Jun 2000
Time: 17:11:07
This will be my first Sunday in a new church, & I'm focusing on the link to our call to ministry. What will I say? Well, my sermon title is, "Here Am I, send Harry!" 'Nuff said? Ken in WV
Date: 18 Jun 2000
Time: 05:28:25
Tomorrow we're singing the hymn, Here I am, Lord. This is one of the most popular hymns in the United Meth. Hymnal, but I wonder how much we believe the words. Here's the refrain, with what I and many might really think in brackets: Here I am, Lord [and this is right where I want to stay]. Is it I, Lord? [gawd, I hope not!] I have heard you calling in the night [I put the pillow over my head and rolled over]. I will go, Lord [fat chance], if you lead me [I'll take care of myself, thank you]. I will hold your people in my heart [which will conveniently avoid me having to hold them in some other way that puts me out of my comfort zone]. JT in PA